D&D 5E (2024) Rules Clarification: Epic Boon at 19th Class Level or Total Character Level?

[MarkB]

Thank you, ECMO3. You cite the same passage that John Lloyd did in post #12 of this thread. There has been some discussion about this in this thread. The discussion centers around the difference (and seeming opposing views) between the Ability Score class feature with "or another feat of your choice" and the fact that the "Epic Boon" feature only appears in the various classes Features tables and explanations.

However, buried in your post here is an interesting idea I had not thought of. You appear to be suggesting that the "Epic Boon" is a feature that can bestow either an Epic Boon Feat or any other feat (which we know), BUT that feature -- which is tied to 19th class level is different from the Epic Boon Feat, which only has "Level 19+" listed as a prerequisite. This use of "Level 19+" under the Epic Boon Feat refers to character level based on how both the Elf Traits that John Lloyd pointed out and also the Warlock features that Mort pointed out are written in the 2024 PHB.

I think, ECMO3 this distinction between Epic Boon class Feature and Epic Boon Feat is an important one and may be the missing piece in terms of me understanding that a character may acquire an Epic Boon Feat whenever she or can take a Feat once total character level of 19 or higher has been reached. That action is separate from the Epic Boon class Feature, which is tied to character class level. Brilliant! Thanks!

BTW, I am not sure what you mean by "Additionally there is a table in Chapter 5 called "Feat List" and it lists all the Feats together with no differentiation on type." The Feat List table on pages 199-200 of the 2024 PHB in fact does list the type of each Feat under a column with the header "Category." Every Feat in that table is identified as being an Origin, General, Fighting Style or Epic Boon Feat.

I think it's coming together now for me and I simply want to thank everyone again for sort of thinking this through with me.

Yeah, I think the only reason the class feature is called Epic Boon is to remind players that they are now high enough level to pick from those as well as other feats. It's not meant to indicate that this feature is required in order to take Epic Boon feats - their only prerequisite is the level requirement.

 

[Hatmatter]

Yeah, I think the only reason the class feature is called Epic Boon is to remind players that they are now high enough level to pick from those as well as other feats. It's not meant to indicate that this feature is required in order to take Epic Boon feats - their only prerequisite is the level requirement.

Brilliant...love it. Thanks!

 

[Spectral Anomaly]

For those concerned that having 2 epic boon feats at multiclass-combined level 20 somehow makes a character overpowered, let's keep in mind that the rules themselves suggest that you can start piling them on for every 30k XP you gain after hitting level 20 (p 43).

 

[Hatmatter]

For those concerned that having 2 epic boon feats at multiclass-combined level 20 somehow makes a character overpowered, let's keep in mind that the rules themselves suggest that you can start piling them on for every 30k XP you gain after hitting level 20 (p 43).

Thanks, Spectral.

I do not think anyone has expressed such a concern here yet. It looked like Ad Hoc might have been, but then it turned out she was unhappy with multiclassing in general (from a game design perspective) and with rules lawyers who assemble character combinations instead of creating character concepts in the specific.

 

[Greywolf143]

Yeah, I see the ambiguity but other things which specify level like cantrips are clarified in the multiclassing rules. Feats are not.

If allowed, this would be another example of how wonky multiclassing is.

A level 14/4 character going to level 15/4 would be much weaker than a level 15/3 who then goes to 15/4.

Since you get a feat at level 16 you could then be 16/4 with 2 epic boons.

I bet this is also going to be an interesting example where we see rules lawyers who swear by narrow literal readings of rules to change their mind on this one and say it's more about what we can read between the lines of what they meant for it to be.

I have feats always go off of character level. So you get a feat at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and an Epic Boon at 19th level. If you play a fighter you get a bonus feat at 6th level Fighter and at 14th level. Regardless of your multiclassing levels and when they happen you can only get the Epic Boon one time at 19th level. There is no strategy to get anything else. However, I strongly hate the idea that multiclassing limits the character on total feats gained and more importantly I strongly hate the idea that a player has to map out what level they take in each of their classes to ensure they still get them. Very simple if you play single class you are going to get a lot of higher level class features that multiclassing doesn't. Feats, ASIs, and Boon Feats I truly feel should just be the same across the board if single class or multiclassing. So every character gets a total of 4 feats or ASI and one Epic Boon by the time they are a 19th level character. Then if playing a Fighter you get the chance at two more Feats or ASI. A rogue gets the chance at one more Feat or ASI. Then if you were to play a Fighter / Rogue the most you would still be able to get is two more feats or ASI as well

 

[Stalker0]

For those concerned that having 2 epic boon feats at multiclass-combined level 20 somehow makes a character overpowered, let's keep in mind that the rules themselves suggest that you can start piling them on for every 30k XP you gain after hitting level 20 (p 43).

if your 20th level, an epic boon is the least of your OP concerns

 

[Greywolf143]

if your 20th level, an epic boon is the least of your OP concerns

I'm not concerned but I go 100% off character level for ASI or feats and when you get the epic boon. Mainly because I hate the idea of my players or myself strategizing to make sure you don't miss a feat. Flat out with exception of Fighter's bonus two and Rogue's bonus two feats are not attained from classes. I give other bonus feats usually in my games anyway so it isn't about power level for me.

 

[renbot]

Edit: Never mind, I misunderstood the question.

 

[Stalker0]

I just wanted to say....this has been one of the most productive rules debates threads I have seen in ages. Calm rational debate to narrow down and define the actual rules and come to some reasonable conclusions. Just excellent!

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I think both readings are correct enough.
Level 20 capstone abilities are usually better than epic boons. Sona nice extra boon for a multiclass character is not terrible.
And other feats are also great. So it is not that one gives up nothing.