D&D (2024) Rules Clarification: Epic Boon at 19th Class Level or Total Character Level?

Hatmatter

Laws of Mordenkainen, Elminster, & Fistandantilus
Hello everyone,

I was watching the Youtuber DnD Builds create a 2024 character and at 21:25 of this video, he mentions that at 19th total character level of the character he was building (a 15 Druid/5 Fighter), the character could select an Epic Boon Feat with his Feat selection for 4th level Fighter (when his total character level was 19 due to 15 levels of Druid). That made sense to me.

However, in perusing the 2024 Player's Handbook, I did not find any place where it specifies that one should use the total character level for determining qualification for Epic Boon Feat. The prerequisites for the Epic Boon Feats on pages 210-211 specify "Prerequisite: Level 19+," which could be interpreted as either class level or total character level.

The feat rules on page 199 note that "If you're instructed to choose a feat from a specific category, such as the Origin category, that category must appear under the feat's name. If you're instructed to choose a feat and no category is specified, you can choose from any category."

The problem is that at 19th level for each of the character class Features tables, the feat available is specified as "Epic Boon." It would seem to me that a strict understanding of this would be that one can only take an Epic Boon Feat at 19th level in one's class level or, later, at 21st total character level and higher.

My gut tells me that DnD Builds is correct, but I was wondering if that is specified anywhere in the Player's Handbooks. Does anyone know?
 

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Clint_L

Legend
I do not agree with DnDBuilds. I think the PHB correctly lists the epic boons on the class features at 19th level. You do not acquire them unless you attain that level in the class, just as you do not acquire other features without attaining the relevant level. I think this is by design. Multi-classing involves trade-offs. However, after you have attained 20 levels, total, your DM has the option of continuing character advancement through epic boons, and this would be available to all characters.
 

ad_hoc

(she/her)
Yeah, I see the ambiguity but other things which specify level like cantrips are clarified in the multiclassing rules. Feats are not.

If allowed, this would be another example of how wonky multiclassing is.

A level 14/4 character going to level 15/4 would be much weaker than a level 15/3 who then goes to 15/4.

Since you get a feat at level 16 you could then be 16/4 with 2 epic boons.

I bet this is also going to be an interesting example where we see rules lawyers who swear by narrow literal readings of rules to change their mind on this one and say it's more about what we can read between the lines of what they meant for it to be.
 

Hatmatter

Laws of Mordenkainen, Elminster, & Fistandantilus
Yeah, I see the ambiguity but other things which specify level like cantrips are clarified in the multiclassing rules. Feats are not.

If allowed, this would be another example of how wonky multiclassing is.

A level 14/4 character going to level 15/4 would be much weaker than a level 15/3 who then goes to 15/4.

Since you get a feat at level 16 you could then be 16/4 with 2 epic boons.

I bet this is also going to be an interesting example where we see rules lawyers who swear by narrow literal readings of rules to change their mind on this one and say it's more about what we can read between the lines of what they meant for it to be.
Thanks for helping out. I am glad that it appears I was reading the book correctly.

However, could you, Ad Hoc, please explain this:
A level 14/4 character going to level 15/4 would be much weaker than a level 15/3 who then goes to 15/4.

Since you get a feat at level 16 you could then be 16/4 with 2 epic boons.
I understand how a 14/4 character going to 15/4 would not get a Feat; whereas a 15/3 character going to 15/4 would. That is, in fact, the rationale for why DnD Builds constructed his character with classes in the level that he did.

However, I do not understand what you mean by "Since you get a feat at level 16 you could then be 16/4 with 2 epic boons." I cannot any scenario in which a character could qualify for two epic boons before 21st level.

Thanks!
 

Hatmatter

Laws of Mordenkainen, Elminster, & Fistandantilus
I do not agree with DnDBuilds. I think the PHB correctly lists the epic boons on the class features at 19th level. You do not acquire them unless you attain that level in the class, just as you do not acquire other features without attaining the relevant level. I think this is by design. Multi-classing involves trade-offs. However, after you have attained 20 levels, total, your DM has the option of continuing character advancement through epic boons, and this would be available to all characters.
Thanks, Clint.

Do you understand "Epic Boon" at 19th level in each of the character class Features charts to only apply to an Epic Boon Feat and not other categories of Feats? A literal reading of the PHB would suggest this, given that "Epic Boon" is specified.

However, I have seen Chris in some of his Treantmonk's Temple 2024 PHB videos suggest that at 19th level a player could (not that he recommends it) select any Feat for his or her character. But, the instructions on page 199 that specify "If you're instructed to choose a feat from a specific category, such as the Origin category, that category must appear under the feat's name" would suggest that, because "Epic Boon" is specified at 19th level, that only an Epic Boon feat may be selected.

[EDIT: Chris from Treatmonk's Temple is correct. The wording in the explanatory text for "Epic Boon" is clear (for example, for the Fighter class on page 92 of the Player's Handbook (2024): "You gain an Epic Boon feat (see chapter 5) or another feat of your choice for which you qualify." (my emphasis)]

Thanks!
 
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ad_hoc

(she/her)
Thanks for helping out. I am glad that it appears I was reading the book correctly.

However, could you, Ad Hoc, please explain this:

I understand how a 14/4 character going to 15/4 would not get a Feat; whereas a 15/3 character going to 15/4 would. That is, in fact, the rationale for why DnD Builds constructed his character with classes in the level that he did.

However, I do not understand what you mean by "Since you get a feat at level 16 you could then be 16/4 with 2 epic boons." I cannot any scenario in which a character could qualify for two epic boons before 21st level.

Thanks!

Under this interpretation you would select an epic boon when going from 15/3 to 15/4 and then select another epic boon at 16/4.
 

Hatmatter

Laws of Mordenkainen, Elminster, & Fistandantilus
Under this interpretation you would select an epic boon when going from 15/3 to 15/4 and then select another epic boon at 16/4.
Ahhh, of course. Ad Hoc. Yes, that interpretation makes it clear that DnD Builds is misreading the rules. I saw a video where he multiclassed a character without that character having a minimum 13 in the primary ability score of one of the classes, so he is not infallible. Thanks again, Ad Hoc!
 


Hatmatter

Laws of Mordenkainen, Elminster, & Fistandantilus
I just built a 16/4 character on D&D beyond and it let me pick an epic Boon at 20 so it seems valid.
Fascinating. I have only played around with D&D Beyond...does D&D Beyond prevent one from creating a character that violates some kind of character creation rules. For example, would I be permitted to make a character that had two 9th-level spell slots if I wanted to make such a character?
 

Chaltab

Adventurer
Fascinating. I have only played around with D&D Beyond...does D&D Beyond prevent one from creating a character that violates some kind of character creation rules. For example, would I be permitted to make a character that had two 9th-level spell slots if I wanted to make such a character?
I'm not sure? You can't do that on a player end but there might be a way to jury-rig that with homebrew. either way non legal characters are marked as such with a homebrew icon.

Edit: at least they used to be I thought. my character with a free level 1 feat from a houserule doesn't seem to have that.
 
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