D&D General Adventurers in Faerun-The Book of Low and Mid Level Adventures?

[mamba]

I think if there was really cool content at those levels, people would engage it.

Remember that a campaign doesn't have to "get to" high level -- you can start there.

I don’t know, what one considers cool content varies quite a bit, and at high levels especially imo. Also, at that time characters are so powerful that challenging them will be difficult, and cakewalks are not cool, no matter what location they take place in.

D&D should just stop at level 10 or 12, most of their adventures stop there anyway. Focus your resources on what gets played instead of wasting half of them on stuff they rarely ever gets used

 

[Parmandur]

Leveling is much faster these days thanks to milestone leveling. Experience point leveling was far slower in BECMI.

Thar goes even more to.the point, however: people are still starting over at the same spot.

 

[Mort]

Vecna Eve of Ruin is high level but I don't hear a lot of people talking about it.

It's got some good parts, the Eberron adventure is decent and has some GREAT idea mining potential. But it's got some real clunkers, such as the Dragonlance portion. And worse, the framing device holding it all together, is just not that good. But it can be made to work, I'm considering running it for my group.

 

[Parmandur]

This right here I think is the real issue. You've hit the nail on the head.

High-level campaigns have 12 to 17 levels of previous campaign material and stories that have occurred over the course of however many months / years the game has been running that an adventure needs to insert itself into. What are the odds that some random adventure writer will come up with a plotline for an adventure that will actually make total sense for where the DM's narrative has evolved to and would make sense for the players to interact with? Usually not great. Especially because high-level modules tend to have more involved plots with odder, more powerful villains that don't just "show up in the wild" like low-level modules and monsters do. At 5th level one can write a "townsfolk are disappearing, what is happening?" adventure and the DM can plop it into their campaign, because it'll involve something like ogres out in the hills surrounding the starting town... something that most campaigns are already starting with.

But no writer is going to use that easily-inserted plotline except this time write it for 16th level characters. Because you'd have to do all kinds of whackadoo things to warrant having it being at 16th level-- the townsfolk are sent to the Abyss... the person kidnapped is the King... the kidnappers are githyanki on a Spelljammer ship... or whatever other weirdass thing the writer can think of to make it worthy of actually being written for characters that high and powerful. But all of those whackadoo things make them less useful to large numbers of DMs because their campaigns just have not moved forward to a place where going to the Abyss, or involving a King, or having to go Spelljamming make any sort of logical or narrative sense.

I think this is one of the reasons why the Adventure Path format has become so useful and popular... because it almost guarantees that the DMs and players that play it will actually see their campaign stories reach the point where those Level 10, Level 12 "adventure sites" at the ends of the book are actually spot-on as to where the party is going to be. The campaign has lead to those locations and plots. And ultimately they will see more use than if those final "modules" that we get at the end of Adventure Paths just got published on their own.

A Tyranny of Dragons adventure path that propels the characters forward from 1st level all the way to a finale at the Well of Dragons against a summoned aspect of Tiamat will see that finale scene get more use than just some writer making a module for Dungeon Magazine that is a 12th to 15th level adventure of Tiamat being summoned and the party has to arrive to stop it. Sure... some DMs and their campaigns might find a way to work that module in to what they've already been building over the preceding 12 levels of the campaign... but most would just look at it and shrug their shoulders, knowing that it just doesn't fit with what they have going on in their game.

And not everyone wants to play the narratives at the gonzonlevels to begin with.

 

[Rushbolt]

Vecna Eve of Ruin is high level but I don't hear a lot of people talking about it.

How does City of Arches provide scenarios for level 13-20 play?

 

[Rushbolt]

The thing that really bothers me is the game is written to level 20. The PHB 2024 has dozens of class abilities devoted to play at level 15+ including multiple epic boons that come online at level 19. There are 13 epic boons in the FR:HoF handbook that had to be developed along with several subclass abilities that were developed for level 15+. Then nothing was provided in FR:AiF that helps the DM get the players to those levels. This is at the very least a lack of support for newer dungeon masters or those that aren't homebrewers.

When I first began this post I had only quickly skimmed the DM book and noticed the table listing the adventures from level 1-13. I was even more confused and frustrated by the tone of the Chapter 1 when I read through that part. The chapter goes on and on about how the Realms is a land of epic heroes, adversaries, and adventures. Then it stops the adventures at level 13. Really? At the very least the message seems contradictory to me.

 

[Parmandur]

The thing that really bothers me is the game is written to level 20. The PHB 2024 has dozens of class abilities devoted to play at level 15+ including multiple epic boons that come online at level 19. There are 13 epic boons in the FR:HoF handbook that had to be developed along with several subclass abilities that were developed for level 15+. Then nothing was provided in FR:AiF that helps the DM get the players to those levels. This is at the very least a lack of support for newer dungeon masters or those that aren't homebrewers.

When I first began this post I had only quickly skimmed the DM book and noticed the table listing the adventures from level 1-13. I was even more confused and frustrated by the tone of the Chapter 1 when I read through that part. The chapter goes on and on about how the Realms is a land of epic heroes, adversaries, and adventures. Then it stops the adventures at level 13. Really? At the very least the message seems stupid to me.

The higher Levels serve two purposes: the first is honoring Tradition, same as other random features of 5E D&D thwt WotC cannot actually change if they want3d to.

The second is to provide an aspirational model of what a super powerful Wizard could be and do, even if a player never goes there.

And there are some people who play high Level, but again they don't buy books for that when they are on offer, across publishers and de ades.

So, yes, in simplistic pragmatic terms, Tier 3 and Tier 4 play could be cut out and not impact too much. But same as the nine-point Alignment system or 3d6 based Ability Scorew, they will never take it out.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

the Eberron adventure is decent and has some GREAT idea mining potential.

That episode has the most annoying organisation possible, with information from the same encounter scattered across different pages, a poorly laid out world map, errors on the other map, and "oh yes, you need a wandering monster table but we couldn't fit it in".

 

[Parmandur]

When I first began this post I had only quickly skimmed the DM book and noticed the table listing the adventures from level 1-13. I was even more confused and frustrated by the tone of the Chapter 1 when I read through that part. The chapter goes on and on about how the Realms is a land of epic heroes, adversaries, and adventures. Then it stops the adventures at level 13. Really? At the very least the message seems contradictory to me.

In terms of this book, however, you are looking in the wrong place for the high Level support it offers: first look to the Bestiary, then look to not the sample Adventures but the Campaign outlines in each Gazateer.

 

[Rushbolt]

The higher Levels serve two purposes: the first is honoring Tradition, same as other random features of 5E D&D thwt WotC cannot actually change if they want3d to.

The second is to provide an aspirational model of what a super powerful Wizard could be and do, even if a player never goes there.

And there are some people who play high Level, but again they don't buy books for that when they are on offer, across publishers and de ades.

So, yes, in simplistic pragmatic terms, Tier 3 and Tier 4 play could be cut out and not impact too much. But same as the nine-point Alignment system or 3d6 based Ability Scorew, they will never take it out.

The why spend time and resources to write 13 new Epic Boons? If the only players playing those levels are all homebrewers then don't bother. Those groups will just write feats of their own if they don't like the ones in the PHB 24.