D&D 5E Advice for the Skill Monkey Blues?


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Undrave

Legend
Aight bro you got me hooked. I think I'm gonna get my D&D fix by homebrewing instead of prepping for a game I hate.
I've really enjoyed homebrewing subclasses recently, but now I gotta wait until the new book comes out before really diving into it again.

I also kinda wanted to take a stab at the Wizard to try and make it more than a pile of spells. I also wanted to experiment with the Warlock frame for Fighter and maybe my Warlord again.
 

goldenskull

Villager
If you want to tank, Action to Dodge, bonus action to Grapple, and drag them away (possibly though some spiked growth on the way).
Good point. Didn't notice that combat maneuvers are Dex-based in this rewrite. ALSO save-based? Wild, though I guess it makes more sense than shoehorning Athletics or Acrobatics into EVERY combat build.

It's not an entirely inelegant solution, but it squicks me out. EVERY half-functional 5E monk having 8 or 10 STR just hits me right in the cringe bone and flies in the face of IRL martial arts + fictional analogues. An 8 STR character being a GRAPPLER? WUT?

The monk's ability to do what you said at 1st level is cool but I'm guessing will probably get cut in favor of tying use of the bonus attack back to attack actions. Being able to dodge and attack every turn from level 1 I wouldn't exactly call "OP" but it's definitely "broken", if you understand the distinction I'm getting at. Roughly equivalent to a +4 AC bonus, which would put monks slightly ahead of board martials at a fairly significant cost to either class resources or effectiveness.

Also worth noting that any STR martial can roughly duplicate this with Extra Attack grapple + shove. If they've got a battleaxe, they can also impose prone with a Weapon Mastery attack.

I've gotta do some DPR math and get back to you, but so far I'm not too impressed.
Maybe because a monk Dash is 33% further?
A monk is very mobile, so they can be useless all over the battlefield ;)
 

First, don't do passive aggressive. Just don't be that person. It never works anyway.

Second, try to talk it out. Consider sending a message to everyone explaining your issues and that you want to discuss it so they aren't blindsided. When you have the discussion, do your best to stay calm and just explain the issues. It likely won't work, but at least you can try.

Third, I don't really see anything you can salvage here unless you're willing to totally change your playstyle. It's just not going to be the right game for you which happens. No DM is going to be right for every person and vice versa.
I was going to say the same thing. Sometimes, different people’s approach to D&D doesn’t mesh. That’s just a fact. You’re not playing wrong, they’re not playing wrong.

Being passive aggressive won’t solve anything. Just tell them it’s not your sort of game snd walk away.
 

mellored

Legend
The monk's ability to do what you said at 1st level is cool but I'm guessing will probably get cut in favor of tying use of the bonus attack back to attack actions
grapple is 1 unarmed attack.
so flurry of blows can be a grapple + trip.
Being able to dodge and attack every turn from level 1 I wouldn't exactly call "OP" but it's definitely "broken", if you understand the distinction I'm getting at. Roughly equivalent to a +4 AC bonus, which would put monks slightly ahead of board martials at a fairly significant cost to either class resources or effectiveness.
No resources required to dodge + attack at level 1.

And yea, that makes it's defense higher than sword and board, plus you can negate an attack at level 3 with your reaction.
And you can instantly swap to dealing damage with 2 punches if you choose.

OP might be quite the right word, it's not moon druid or twilight cleric. "Overtuned" would probably be more accurate.

And that was the playtest. Perhaps they will town down the reaction to be more in line with the rogues.
 

goldenskull

Villager
@mellored
DPR is actually somewhat balanced. Not GOOD, but balanced. Not factoring in Action Surge, the monk's basic damage is worse than a bog-standard fighter or Treantmonk's baseline but better using Flurry every turn (not guaranteed). Factoring Action Surge (assuming 4 rounds of combat between short rests), a fighter does way more. And, of course, the Monk has exactly one build that makes sense, which is tragic.

(EDIT) Short story: if you're flurrying ALL THE TIME, you're about 15% better than a standard fighter. If not then you're about 25% worse. But once you factor in Action Surge, you're probably still behind - by about 10% depending how you calculate.

For baseline: Flurrying is 25% better and normal is 20% worse.

Again, this is the revised monk - not the original.

(EDIT 2) The Martial arts Bonus attack should x2 at level 10. Otherwise the monk is basically a paperweight if you got no ki.
 

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goldenskull

Villager
grapple is 1 unarmed attack.
so flurry of blows can be a grapple + trip.
Yep. I got that. My point was that - if all you want is this particular dude to have disadvantage against attacks on you, a level 5 martial can do the same thing and gets advantage on attacks against it as a bonus. Requires an extra combat maneuver, but still. Obviously dodging is better if you're facing a crowd.
No resources required to dodge + attack at level 1.
I understood that too.
OP might be quite the right word, it's not moon druid or twilight cleric. "Overtuned" would probably be more accurate.
I went with "broken" because I can't think off the top of my head of any vanilla class that can attack as a bonus action except after an attack action - unless you're counting like sorcs casting quickened etc.

IIRC the only way to Dodge + attack is with Action Surge or Haste? Both very limited. Cloak of Displacement sorta has the same effect?

My gut reaction is that it's an interesting thought experiment but the game isn't balanced around that so someone - if not me right now - will probably think up some way to abuse it enough that it won't make it out of UA. IDK maybe I'm just being reactionary.
 

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