silentspace
First Post
Yeah, this game's about killing things and taking their stuff, not defense! 
Advice needed on tactics
- Thread starter Cross
- Start date
two
First Post
foggy memories
I have very foggy memories of age-old threads discussing actually effective MELEE monk builds. Note I'm talking melee here.
I think there was one common denominator: the high dex, low strength monk never is going to work, period.
The two builds that I remember best (not saying alot):
1) Grappler monk. Specializes in grappling. All grappling feats. Glove of Mighty Grips (something like that, gives a bonus to grappling). Feat: Jotumbrand (something like that), allows you to be counted as one size bigger than you are for purposes of grappling. Get an item of perma-enlarge, or 100 potions of enlarge. "Low" dex, "low" wisdom, high strength, high movement, high Con. Schtick: run in and immediately grapple the crap out of any enemy, biggest first. Use flurry of blows in increase grapple chances, etc. This guy can be very effective, and a bit of a GM headache. The idea is, since you lose Dex when grappling, and you are always gonna be grappling, don't worry about having a high dex. Get hitpoints instead.
2) The "death by a million cuts" build. Something like flurry of blows, two-weapon fighting (monk weapons, one in each hand), strength=18 or higher. The idea is that each attack won't do as much as the barbarian build, but you get like, 2 more attacks a round than he does. This depends a lot on equipment, initial stats, and the GM allowing flurry of blows + attacks with weapons in both hands to stack. Somebody had a build that seemed OK.
Anyway, they are very specialized and personally I'd find grappling every battle more than a little boring. But everyone's different.
There is also the high stun DC monk, but that guy... he just stinks. Stun DC just ain't ever that good, you have to declare, then hit, then have the guy fail a fort save. Melee monsters always have good fort saves. Things that don't, you are better off grappling (wizards, rogues, bards, etc.).
OFF TOPIC:
In my games, Monks get full BAB progression (in other words, like a fighter). Even with this added benefit (which is pretty large), you are hard pressed to find a monk that comes anywhere close to a no-brainer greatsword barbarian build. Most people don't like to play monks. They are very tricky. Even with full BAB ... they resist the temptation.
I have very foggy memories of age-old threads discussing actually effective MELEE monk builds. Note I'm talking melee here.
I think there was one common denominator: the high dex, low strength monk never is going to work, period.
The two builds that I remember best (not saying alot):
1) Grappler monk. Specializes in grappling. All grappling feats. Glove of Mighty Grips (something like that, gives a bonus to grappling). Feat: Jotumbrand (something like that), allows you to be counted as one size bigger than you are for purposes of grappling. Get an item of perma-enlarge, or 100 potions of enlarge. "Low" dex, "low" wisdom, high strength, high movement, high Con. Schtick: run in and immediately grapple the crap out of any enemy, biggest first. Use flurry of blows in increase grapple chances, etc. This guy can be very effective, and a bit of a GM headache. The idea is, since you lose Dex when grappling, and you are always gonna be grappling, don't worry about having a high dex. Get hitpoints instead.
2) The "death by a million cuts" build. Something like flurry of blows, two-weapon fighting (monk weapons, one in each hand), strength=18 or higher. The idea is that each attack won't do as much as the barbarian build, but you get like, 2 more attacks a round than he does. This depends a lot on equipment, initial stats, and the GM allowing flurry of blows + attacks with weapons in both hands to stack. Somebody had a build that seemed OK.
Anyway, they are very specialized and personally I'd find grappling every battle more than a little boring. But everyone's different.
There is also the high stun DC monk, but that guy... he just stinks. Stun DC just ain't ever that good, you have to declare, then hit, then have the guy fail a fort save. Melee monsters always have good fort saves. Things that don't, you are better off grappling (wizards, rogues, bards, etc.).
OFF TOPIC:
In my games, Monks get full BAB progression (in other words, like a fighter). Even with this added benefit (which is pretty large), you are hard pressed to find a monk that comes anywhere close to a no-brainer greatsword barbarian build. Most people don't like to play monks. They are very tricky. Even with full BAB ... they resist the temptation.
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ARandomGod
First Post
I don't have my CA here to reference... but you're already level 10 monk...
Not taking the 11th level to get greater flurry seems a shame. That's an entire extra attack.
Then at level 12 it's abundant step, which is like spring attack only 1)insanely better 2)just once a day.
Then level 13 to get spell resistance... well, that one's not actually very good or important, IMO. Any caster you meet who's worth the effort of having the ability will basically ignore it. But then, that's just my opinion of spell resist.
So you practially HAVE to go on for two more levels... Plus that'll pop you up to 2d6, give you extra AC and and extra 10 ft speed.
Now, for your feat, if you haven't already, see if you can take the Improved Natural Attack feat found under monsterous feats. That'll move you up to 3d6 damage on your unarmed attacks.
But, all that said. ... Scrap the character and make up a good one instead.
Not taking the 11th level to get greater flurry seems a shame. That's an entire extra attack.
Then at level 12 it's abundant step, which is like spring attack only 1)insanely better 2)just once a day.
Then level 13 to get spell resistance... well, that one's not actually very good or important, IMO. Any caster you meet who's worth the effort of having the ability will basically ignore it. But then, that's just my opinion of spell resist.
So you practially HAVE to go on for two more levels... Plus that'll pop you up to 2d6, give you extra AC and and extra 10 ft speed.
Now, for your feat, if you haven't already, see if you can take the Improved Natural Attack feat found under monsterous feats. That'll move you up to 3d6 damage on your unarmed attacks.
But, all that said. ... Scrap the character and make up a good one instead.
silentspace
First Post
ARandomGod said:
Can't act after dimension door, unless you have that feat from CW. (I always wondered how shadowdancers stayed hidden after shadow jump...) Still a good ability though.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
two said:
"When using flurry of blows, a monk may attack only with unarmed strikes or with special monk weapons (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham)."
Grapple is neither a special monk weapon, nor an unarmed strike.
-Hyp.
ARandomGod
First Post
silentspace said:
They hide before shadowjumping. Nothing in the act says you become unhidden.
(although it seems to me that you should need to hide afterwards, but then we're talking reality, and if you let reality intrude you'll realize that there's really no reason you can't hide after a dimension door. Shortly thereafter you might come to the realization that there is no such thing as dimension door... hence the need to not let reality intrude too much!)
RandomPrecision
First Post
Isn't there something along the lines of an Ascetic Rogue feat in CA that lets you stack levels of monk and rogue for determining unarmed damage, and gives you bonuses with the stunning fist + sneak attack combo?
Edit: Yeah, there is - Ascetic Rogue adds rogue levels to monk levels for determining unarmed damage, allows free multiclassing between them, and adds +2 to the DC of your stunning fists if it is also a sneak attack.
Edit: Yeah, there is - Ascetic Rogue adds rogue levels to monk levels for determining unarmed damage, allows free multiclassing between them, and adds +2 to the DC of your stunning fists if it is also a sneak attack.
Last edited:
Saeviomagy
Adventurer
If your fighter had his best two stats in wisdom and dex, would you expect him to be a great damage machine?
If your barbarian had his best two stats in wisdom and dex...
So why do you expect to be different?
If you want a melee damage machine monk, then like any other class who wants to deal melee damage, you MUST prioritise strength. Yes, even a rogue.
If your barbarian had his best two stats in wisdom and dex...
So why do you expect to be different?
If you want a melee damage machine monk, then like any other class who wants to deal melee damage, you MUST prioritise strength. Yes, even a rogue.
Ridley's Cohort
First Post
silentspace said:
I agree with silentspace.
Unless an enemy spellcaster sends you a written invitation to come over and play, at this level your Monk alone can do nothing, nada, nyet, naught, nil, nix, and null.
You can contribute usefully if you focus, focus, focus on teamwork.
The Rogue will absolutely love to see you give him a target that is stunned, easily flanked, or grappled.
The Fighter will be thrilled to see his opponent stunned, tripped, or flanked.
Delay your action to go right before your selected teammate. That maximizes your chance of results. You would not want to grapple someone only to have them escape your clutches.
Stun is your best bet if you get a single attack. If you get a full attack against a high AC opponent, do not bother to flurry; do a Stun/Trip or Stun/Grapple or Trip/Trip. Even an opposes check at a -10 disadvantage gives you a ~11% chance of getting lucky.
Keep in mind that the Rogue can do almost as much damage with a single Sneak Attack as you are likely to do if all three of your flurries land. You do what it takes to give him the opportunities. If you can help him get a full iterative SA, the damage you personally dish out will be irrelevant.
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