Advice on a cleric feat please.
- Thread starter Clumsy Bob
- Start date
Clumsy Bob
First Post
Larcen said:I am curious since I play a cleric very similar to yours. Since it looks like you have made a frontline cleric here, like me, which offensive spells do you foresee using so often that prompts you to take Spell Penetration? Hold Person?
BTW, my vote would have been for Improved Initiative. Being flatfooted sucks.
Okay firstly here is a list of spells I quickly put together that require SR checks, I will underline the ones I use or intend to use.
Bane
Command/Greater
Doom
Enthrall
Hold Person
Inflict various wounds
Bestow Curse
Blindness/Deafness
Contagion
Searing Light
Poison
Dismissal
Dispel Evil
Flame Strike
Slay Living
Sympol Pain/Sleep
Quite a selection, now yes I suppose I do have a melee cleric and given enough preparation I can give our barbarian a run for his money. However I choose to disable or hinder powerful adversries with spells rather than raging around the battlefield.
As I pointed out earlier we anticipate encountering numerous drow and their demon/devil allies in forthcoming adventures (anyone guess which mega-module we are about to start?)
I am now a Sacred Exorcist, and with Dismissal and Dispel Evil at my disposal I dont want to fall short due to extraplanar Spell Resistance.
Addressing some other suggestions, my personal reasons for not taking the following feats are:
Cleave - I dont wish to be a total melee cleric.
Improved Initiative - I am used to going last most rounds (we roll initiative every round) and actually quite like it, I get to react to the situation where I am needed most. But yes it does suck when I am in a fight.
Extend/Persistant Spell IMO this feat chain is only for divine favor, with Persitant Spell only working on spells with a personal range I think you only get to use it on two 1st level spells, DF and comprehend languages.
Now that the buff spells have had the durations changed Extend spell is no longer such a good choice either.
Zaruthustran
The tingling means it’s working!
In my experience, winning initiative can sometimes be Bad.
Example: surprise.
Well, you lost the surprise round anyway because you're ambushed/surprised. Init doesn't help in the surprise round, unless you're the one acting in the surprise round--in which case you still go before your all your foes, and init is only useful for acting before your buddies.
Example: normal round and you're a melee fighter.
Well, if you win init you can run up and attack once. Then your foe full attacks you. If you're a high level fighter with iterative attacks or a TWF fighter it's bad to not get your full attack. And it's always bad to suffer someone else's full attack. Much better to lose init, take the single charge attack, then retaliate with a full attack.
Of course, in other cases (like cases with rogues) winning initiative is Good. But sometimes its bad. For those times, Delay (or Ready, if you have a spear) is your friend.
-z
Example: surprise.
Well, you lost the surprise round anyway because you're ambushed/surprised. Init doesn't help in the surprise round, unless you're the one acting in the surprise round--in which case you still go before your all your foes, and init is only useful for acting before your buddies.
Example: normal round and you're a melee fighter.
Well, if you win init you can run up and attack once. Then your foe full attacks you. If you're a high level fighter with iterative attacks or a TWF fighter it's bad to not get your full attack. And it's always bad to suffer someone else's full attack. Much better to lose init, take the single charge attack, then retaliate with a full attack.
Of course, in other cases (like cases with rogues) winning initiative is Good. But sometimes its bad. For those times, Delay (or Ready, if you have a spear) is your friend.
-z
Which you can't do (well, you can but there's generally not much point) if you lost initiative. Winning initiative is *always* good. In addition to giving you the choice to attack, ready an action, or flee, it also gets rid of flatfooted-ness. It isn't always good to rush forward and attack when you win initiative, though, as you point out.Zaruthustran said:
Ridley's Cohort
First Post
Zaruthustran said:
When that happens, it is usually because of poor teamwork.
Charging in when you are not sure what other PCs are going to do can be very bad. Sometimes it is better to delay until a buddy is ready too. But if you don't have a good initiative, it is very likely your duo is going last.
two
First Post
er, not to disagree but,
I guess I do disagree.
What percentage of the time does "going first" or "high in the initiative order" really matter for a cleric in a combat?
Then, given that it does matter for a combat, what percentage of the time will a +4 to initiative make a difference in the combat?
In my experience, most combats don't start out BANG! you are face-to-face with danger. Roll initiative. Go. Most of the time it's scout, or buff/prep, or somebody hears something then something happens leading to .... whatever.
Occasially there is an ambush, and in ambushes initiative can matter a lot. But this is rare.
Even more rare is that something so dire and horrible happens in the first round that it matter is Karl the Cleric goes at 15 or at 10 or at 5.
I just dont' see the big deal. It's a cleric. Clerics have good flatfooted AC, good saves, good hit points, no real weaknesses.
How can very occasionally going higher in the initiative order than the cleric would have gone without blowing a feat on it be BETTER or more useful than moving towards persistent feat, or extend, or etc.
When you take "improved initiative" you are not just taking it, you are NOT taking another feat. I'd say extend then persistent blows away any advantage improved init. will ever give.
I guess I do disagree.
What percentage of the time does "going first" or "high in the initiative order" really matter for a cleric in a combat?
Then, given that it does matter for a combat, what percentage of the time will a +4 to initiative make a difference in the combat?
In my experience, most combats don't start out BANG! you are face-to-face with danger. Roll initiative. Go. Most of the time it's scout, or buff/prep, or somebody hears something then something happens leading to .... whatever.
Occasially there is an ambush, and in ambushes initiative can matter a lot. But this is rare.
Even more rare is that something so dire and horrible happens in the first round that it matter is Karl the Cleric goes at 15 or at 10 or at 5.
I just dont' see the big deal. It's a cleric. Clerics have good flatfooted AC, good saves, good hit points, no real weaknesses.
How can very occasionally going higher in the initiative order than the cleric would have gone without blowing a feat on it be BETTER or more useful than moving towards persistent feat, or extend, or etc.
When you take "improved initiative" you are not just taking it, you are NOT taking another feat. I'd say extend then persistent blows away any advantage improved init. will ever give.
