Advice on monk building.

[Nexsolus]

Hello and well met.

I myself am a very inexperienced person when it comes to D&D. Under advice from a freind I am currently only looking into the 3.5v.

I am interested in trying out a Half-dragon template with monk class. I have yet to decide on a base creature. Now i wont be able to play this in a campaign (because me and my 3 freinds can't find a dm or group to join with near us) but me and a freind have decided to try and make random characters and see how tough of baddies we can go up against.

Now this was my idea mainly because i have very little know how of character creation and i thought it would help.

Is there any advice anyone could give me regarding my intrests. Like mentioned before I would like to do a half-dragon monk build and we decided to do them lvl 12 (he has an idea he wants to try out and needs to be that high to test it). I would also like to try and keep it a pure monk class but some PrCl would be fine as well.

Im not looking for complete telling of how to make a monk but just some advice and suggestions on different types of monks avalible to work with.

Books that i am able to look into are as follows:

3.5 Players Handbook
Dungeon Masters Guide 3.5
3.5 Monster Manual I
Complete Adventurer
Complete Arcane
Complete Warrior
Complete Divine
Races Of Dragon
Spell Compendium
Magic Item Compendium
Book of Exalted Deeds

I think thats all I have at my desposal.

Also Im not very well versed in all the terms and such i have viewed here so I may ask what you mean.

Any advice would be welcome.

 

[Dandu]

Half dragon monk. Bad idea. You should read the Monk's Handbook.

You will probably want to be a race without LA. You can boost Wis and get a good attack bonus by taking Intuitive Attack from the Book of Exhalted Deeds. Touch of Golden Ice will make evil creatures poisoned with Golden Ice every time you touch them.

If you really must be a half dragon, get it through Dragon Disciple. Dip in either Sorcerer or Wizard, and pick useful first level spells like Fist of Stone, and a wand of Wraithstrike.

 

[Nexsolus]

Half dragon monk. Bad idea. You should read the Monk's Handbook.

You will probably want to be a race without LA. You can boost Wis and get a good attack bonus by taking Intuitive Attack from the Book of Exhalted Deeds. Touch of Golden Ice will make evil creatures poisoned with Golden Ice every time you touch them.

If you really must be a half dragon, get it through Dragon Disciple. Dip in either Sorcerer or Wizard, and pick useful first level spells like Fist of Stone, and a wand of Wraithstrike.

The whole half-dragon thing is just a preference of mine. As for the whole Touch of Golden Ice, i thought you need to go into Vow of Poverty for it? Ill look it up in a second just in case.

I also need to look into dragon disciple since i dont know much about them.

 

[Dandu]

You don't need Vow of Poverty to take Touch of Golden Ice or Intuitive Attack. You just need to be exhalted.

Dragon Disciple is a poor class, but it turns you into a half-dragon without the crippling level adjustment. Among other things.

Take either 2, 4, or 6 levels in monk, then you'll probably want to start multiclassing or prestige classing.

 

[Nexsolus]

Just to look into it, where can i find information on Dragon Disciple?



EDIT: Never mind i see it now.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Welcome to the boards!

The major problem with half-dragon is the level adjustment causing you to have very few HD (hit dice, d8 for monks). Say if you started with level 4 characters. Your hp would be 8 (first HD is maximized) + your constitution modifier. A level 4 human paladin would have hit points of 4d8 +4*con mod, which with first HD maxed, is more accurately 8 + 3d8 + 4*con mod. As is clear, you will die MUCH easier than the human, really one good melee attack could kill you, especially if it scores a critical hit.

Anyway, for a monk...how complex do you want it to be?
Note that monks can treat their unarmed strike as a natural weapon. Counter-intuitive as it may seem, they are they only ones who can do this, in other cases an unarmed strike is not a natural attack. That means the best monk feat in the game is actually in the monster manual: Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed Strike). That way a medium monk (like a human or elf) counts as a large monk for unarmed damage.
Pain Touch from Complete Warrior is a good feat. The round after the enemy you stunned suffers from that, he is nauseated. Which basically means taking him out of the fight an extra round.

Ability scores: Strength and wisdom are the most important scores, though constitution and dexterity are not far behind. Intelligence gives skill points and some feat access, but is otherwise not important. Charisma is absolutely worthless to you, the only possible benefit is qualifying for exalted feats in Book of Exalted Deeds. When buying magic items to increase ability scores, or raising them at every 4th level, keep that order of priorities in mind.

Feel free to stay straight monk. For permanent magic items, you want bracers of armor (but see below); ability enhancements for wisdom, strength, dexterity, and constitution; resistance bonus to saves; boots of striding and springing; ring of protection; and at higher levels a monk's belt. Do not waste your money on amulet of mighty fists, it is a disgusting ripoff (costs triple the price of enhancing swords and such).

For one-use items, you're basically limited to potions/oils (in game terms, the same thing, just some you drink, some you pour over an object). Enlarge Person (cost: 50 gp) is the single best combat booster you can get. Large size hurts your AC but gives you longer attack reach and a strength bonus. Potions of Mage Armor (cost: 50 gp each) can be used instead of buying bracers of armor. For 50 gp each, you get one hour of +4 AC that stacks with your monk AC bonus. Since your unarmed strike is both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon, Oil of Magic Weapon and Oil of Magic Fang (cost: 50 gp) will both give you a +1 enhancement (+1 attack and damage; ignore damage reduction that is pierced by magic weapons) on your unarmed strikes for 1 minute. At higher levels when you can afford it, Oil of Greater Magic Weapon/Fang (cost: 750 gp) will give the same benefit, but for 5 hours. Of course, if you have an allied Wizard, Sorcerer, or Druid in the party, he could probably just cast these spells for you with his spells/day. Or you could buy him scrolls to use on you (scrolls cost half as much as potions, but only casters can use them).

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Just to look into it, where can i find information on Dragon Disciple?

Just click on the link above your post. Dandu embedded it in the text of "Dragon Disciple." Alternatively, click here: Dragon Disciple :: d20srd.org

I don't think going into that class is a good idea. Not only because it's weak. Also because you have to go and multiclass with a spellcasting class just to enter. Keep things simpler your first time playing.

 

[Nexsolus]

Welcome to the boards!

The major problem with half-dragon is the level adjustment causing you to have very few HD (hit dice, d8 for monks). Say if you started with level 4 characters. Your hp would be 8 (first HD is maximized) + your constitution modifier. A level 4 human paladin would have hit points of 4d8 +4*con mod, which with first HD maxed, is more accurately 8 + 3d8 + 4*con mod. As is clear, you will die MUCH easier than the human, really one good melee attack could kill you, especially if it scores a critical hit.

Anyway, for a monk...how complex do you want it to be?
Note that monks can treat their unarmed strike as a natural weapon. Counter-intuitive as it may seem, they are they only ones who can do this, in other cases an unarmed strike is not a natural attack. That means the best monk feat in the game is actually in the monster manual: Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed Strike). That way a medium monk (like a human or elf) counts as a large monk for unarmed damage.
Pain Touch from Complete Warrior is a good feat. The round after the enemy you stunned suffers from that, he is nauseated. Which basically means taking him out of the fight an extra round.

Ability scores: Strength and wisdom are the most important scores, though constitution and dexterity are not far behind. Intelligence gives skill points and some feat access, but is otherwise not important. Charisma is absolutely worthless to you, the only possible benefit is qualifying for exalted feats in Book of Exalted Deeds. When buying magic items to increase ability scores, or raising them at every 4th level, keep that order of priorities in mind.

Feel free to stay straight monk. For permanent magic items, you want bracers of armor (but see below); ability enhancements for wisdom, strength, dexterity, and constitution; resistance bonus to saves; boots of striding and springing; ring of protection; and at higher levels a monk's belt. Do not waste your money on amulet of mighty fists, it is a disgusting ripoff (costs triple the price of enhancing swords and such).

For one-use items, you're basically limited to potions/oils (in game terms, the same thing, just some you drink, some you pour over an object). Enlarge Person (cost: 50 gp) is the single best combat booster you can get. Large size hurts your AC but gives you longer attack reach and a strength bonus. Potions of Mage Armor (cost: 50 gp each) can be used instead of buying bracers of armor. For 50 gp each, you get one hour of +4 AC that stacks with your monk AC bonus. Since your unarmed strike is both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon, Oil of Magic Weapon and Oil of Magic Fang (cost: 50 gp) will both give you a +1 enhancement (+1 attack and damage; ignore damage reduction that is pierced by magic weapons) on your unarmed strikes for 1 minute. At higher levels when you can afford it, Oil of Greater Magic Weapon/Fang (cost: 750 gp) will give the same benefit, but for 5 hours. Of course, if you have an allied Wizard, Sorcerer, or Druid in the party, he could probably just cast these spells for you with his spells/day. Or you could buy him scrolls to use on you (scrolls cost half as much as potions, but only casters can use them).

Just click on the link above your post. Dandu embedded it in the text of "Dragon Disciple." Alternatively, click here: Dragon Disciple :: d20srd.org

I don't think going into that class is a good idea. Not only because it's weak. Also because you have to go and multiclass with a spellcasting class just to enter. Keep things simpler your first time playing.

Hmm well like mentioned before the whole Half Dragon thing is just a personal preerence. I guess i dont need to do it. As for monk in general, im not looking for anything too complicated. I wont be playing this character in a campaign since me and my friend dont have anyone to play with. Me and him and maybe his brother will be making characters and see how well they do in combat against random creatures. For this current build I need to make a lvl 12 character. After reading through the core classes I am most interested in a monk. Though im not sure what kind of monk id like.

Wether it be a pure meele monk, grappling monk, or anything else you got any tips for different varieties?

As for the dragon disciple i might do one somtime but not now, i think im just going to have to scratch the whole half dragon idea.

 

[Dandu]

Grappling - poor idea. It would probably be better to go straight melee, focus on strength and con, and get as many size increases as possible. Have some wisdom and take Stunning Fist, along with Ability Focus: Stunning Fist, if you want the ability.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Grappling can be tremendously effective...against a single foe. If you're in a typical encounter- one with multiple foes (N Foes = Party size + X), you run the risk of being hit by others. In addition, even if your party can keep the mob off of your back, it still means that you're taking down one foe while your party is taking down everyone else.

Now, if that person happens to be the Necromancer, that may be quite the fair exchange.

OTOH, if it happens to be a Captain of the Guard of the Temple of Evil while the party is trying to take down the Temple's heirarchy...well, they may not like you very much.

Grappling also suffers the problem of being of limited use against foes larger than yourself. Still, if your build has size boosters included as Dandu points out, that issue melts away.

Overall, most people favor the Str/Con/Wis build for Monks. The more sources you have access to, however, the more viable options you have.

For example, I've had great success with Dex/Wis/Str builds when used in conjunction with the Combat Reflexes Feat tree and liberal use of ranged weapons...but I also make sure that the PC has access to a Polearm Monk weapon (attainable through certain equipment lists, Monk base class variants, and Feats from Eberron or Dragon Compendium v. 1) which gives him more opportunities to get full use of his surplus of Attacks of Opportunity, and use as many Str and Size boosters as I can get.

(I've also been criticized that the Str boosting equipment makes this no different from the Str/Con/Wis build, but the fact of the matter is that there are more Str boosts in the game than Dex boosts. My builds tend to have much higher ACs and Reflex saves and only marginally lower Strength when both builds are running with everything "hot.")