Darkwing Duck
First Post
I want to run a noir setting, but I'm uncertain about how to do it. Please advise.
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Advice on running a noir setting
- Thread starter Darkwing Duck
- Start date
Herobizkit
Adventurer
Your namesake is your first clue. Darkwing Duck is somewhat of a comedic take on the Noir genre.
Noir games tend to have Black and Gray Morality. The struggles that characters face are often self-inflicted (addictions or other odious personal habits) or as a result of a double or triple-cross - no one can be trusted; no one is a hero.
Success is usually measured by preventing a situation from getting worse rather than making any positive change for the better.
Life is cheap - someone almost always dies, usually in a tragic way.
Noir games tend to have Black and Gray Morality. The struggles that characters face are often self-inflicted (addictions or other odious personal habits) or as a result of a double or triple-cross - no one can be trusted; no one is a hero.
Success is usually measured by preventing a situation from getting worse rather than making any positive change for the better.
Life is cheap - someone almost always dies, usually in a tragic way.
Uncle_Muppet
Explorer
The Black and Gray thing is pretty key. For me, this tends to mean that corruption runs rampant - everyone has a price and thus can be bought. And this runs both directions. So not only can a city guard be paid to look the other way while a crime is committed, a villain's henchman can also be bought off to betray his boss and look the other way while the heroes sneak inside. (Of course, for it to be a true Noir setting, you won't have heroes - you'll merely have protagonists. The PCs are going to have vices and flaws and the potential to be bought off by NPCs.)
You definitely want to use the classic hard-boiled detective stories as inspiration. Watch the old films, read the books, download the old radio shows ("The Adventures of Philip Marlowe" from archive.org is highly recommended).
You definitely want to use the classic hard-boiled detective stories as inspiration. Watch the old films, read the books, download the old radio shows ("The Adventures of Philip Marlowe" from archive.org is highly recommended).
Wednesday Boy
The Nerd WhoFell to Earth
Watch Chinatown and L.A. Confidential. And Memento. And Touch of Evil. And Sin City. And Brick.
I think the adventure should have a smaller scope. They should deal with situations that a small group of people care about rather than be an epic, saving the world campaign.
It seems to me that often the main plot of a noir is different than the initial motivation for the story. So the hero might initially be snooping on a suspected adulterer and tangentially discover a police corruption scandal.
I think the adventure should have a smaller scope. They should deal with situations that a small group of people care about rather than be an epic, saving the world campaign.
It seems to me that often the main plot of a noir is different than the initial motivation for the story. So the hero might initially be snooping on a suspected adulterer and tangentially discover a police corruption scandal.
LostSoul
Adventurer
I don't think that Black and Grey morality necessarily applies to the protagonist or heroes in Noir. Look at The Maltese Falcon. Sam Spade wears the white hat. It may not seem like it for most of the movie, but by the end you can see that he was looking for justice (and not just revenge). He even turns down something like $5,000.
Anyway. What I'd do is steal from a movie or book. That should give you a nice set of NPCs and good backstory to work with. The tricky part is getting the PCs into the plot; when in doubt, use force and violence, because it's not something the PCs can simply walk away from. Once you figure out how you're getting the PCs involved in this mess, play the NPCs as real as you can and eschew the idea of set-piece scenes. Those scenes should form naturally. e.g. PC: "This guy has a key to a warehouse, let's check it out." DM: That's where they are bringing in the drugs. There must be some guards there; when the PCs get there they will have to deal with the guards.
You need to get some buy-in from the players. They need to engage whatever noir plot is going on. Try to put the PCs on the bad side of the law, or make the law corrupt, in order to prevent the PCs from turning the case over to the cops or the feds and walking away.
Anyway. What I'd do is steal from a movie or book. That should give you a nice set of NPCs and good backstory to work with. The tricky part is getting the PCs into the plot; when in doubt, use force and violence, because it's not something the PCs can simply walk away from. Once you figure out how you're getting the PCs involved in this mess, play the NPCs as real as you can and eschew the idea of set-piece scenes. Those scenes should form naturally. e.g. PC: "This guy has a key to a warehouse, let's check it out." DM: That's where they are bringing in the drugs. There must be some guards there; when the PCs get there they will have to deal with the guards.
You need to get some buy-in from the players. They need to engage whatever noir plot is going on. Try to put the PCs on the bad side of the law, or make the law corrupt, in order to prevent the PCs from turning the case over to the cops or the feds and walking away.
More inspirational noir viewing...
Classic: Kansas City Confidential, The Asphalt Jungle, Beat the Devil.
French: Le Samourai, Rififi, Bob le flambeur
Neo: The Long Goodbye, Night Moves, The Big Lebowski.
edit: noir is all about style, and to a much lesser extent about plot. So mechanics shouldn't be the focus -- unless you want to use Fiasco, which would probably be perfect. The ideal noir plot for RPG play is the team heist. Bonus points if one (or more) of the characters are trying to go straight.
Classic: Kansas City Confidential, The Asphalt Jungle, Beat the Devil.
French: Le Samourai, Rififi, Bob le flambeur
Neo: The Long Goodbye, Night Moves, The Big Lebowski.
edit: noir is all about style, and to a much lesser extent about plot. So mechanics shouldn't be the focus -- unless you want to use Fiasco, which would probably be perfect. The ideal noir plot for RPG play is the team heist. Bonus points if one (or more) of the characters are trying to go straight.
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Phototoxin
Explorer
I think the choices of a character are what can make Noir, the difficulty is in forcing those decisions.
So rather than say hero/batman/player pulling the dangling villain from off a ledge and leaving him for the cops, the noir character thinks 'you fiddle kids/murder people/whatever' and steps on his fingers. Might not be technically right (indeed might be technically murder!) but is highly sympathetic in his logic and mode of justice. The hero might be on the side of the angels but isn't one.
The issue with creating situations where there's no great outcomes only less bad ones is that it can be jading for players - the crime boss who we know ordered the hit squad gets away scott free because he's protected by corrupt police even if the heros/protagonists/players have succeeded and stopped the assassins/saved the victims/found the mcGuffin - And now the crime boss is gunning for your family because bad guys don't play nice and you can't watch your back and watch theirs at the same time. It can be harrowing because how do you succeed where the setting/world is stacked against you? Eventually you will fail, and failing is something players don't like!
So rather than say hero/batman/player pulling the dangling villain from off a ledge and leaving him for the cops, the noir character thinks 'you fiddle kids/murder people/whatever' and steps on his fingers. Might not be technically right (indeed might be technically murder!) but is highly sympathetic in his logic and mode of justice. The hero might be on the side of the angels but isn't one.
The issue with creating situations where there's no great outcomes only less bad ones is that it can be jading for players - the crime boss who we know ordered the hit squad gets away scott free because he's protected by corrupt police even if the heros/protagonists/players have succeeded and stopped the assassins/saved the victims/found the mcGuffin - And now the crime boss is gunning for your family because bad guys don't play nice and you can't watch your back and watch theirs at the same time. It can be harrowing because how do you succeed where the setting/world is stacked against you? Eventually you will fail, and failing is something players don't like!
Wednesday Boy
The Nerd WhoFell to Earth
Forget it, Phototoxin. It's Chinatown. I entirely agree with what you noted and I would reiterate what you said about knowing your players. One guy in my group wants his characters to have decisive victories every time and like you pointed out--only "less bad" endings would be jading and frustrating for him. On the other hand, I personally find it more interesting to get put through the wringer and pyrrhic victories can be satisfying for me (provided they involve good storytelling and I don't feel like the whole game was pointless). So knowing your group's tolerance for failure and "less bad" endings will help you push the envelope as needed.
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