Advice wanted: 3.5 weapon sizing

[Storyteller01]

3.5 rules are better. They assume that small races MAKE weapons for thier races, rather than bum weapons off elves and humans.

Arguementative I know, but ...

Why would a race whose at a disadvantage to use those weapon make small replicas of them (not counting the universal weapons such as the dagger, sword, and bow)?

I actually wish the designers had shown some creativity and developed original weapons/strategies for the the other races. Beats making smaller versions, which IMHO amounts to the same concept of using human hand-me-downs. Their expected to keep up with Medium races using a Medium races methods on a smaller scale.

Question: Do the 3.5 rules have Small/Large equivalents for armor?

 

[rushlight]

Arguementative I know, but ...

Why would a race whose at a disadvantage to use those weapon make small replicas of them (not counting the universal weapons such as the dagger, sword, and bow)?

I actually wish the designers had shown some creativity and developed original weapons/strategies for the the other races. Beats making smaller versions, which IMHO amounts to the same concept of using human hand-me-downs. Their expected to keep up with Medium races using a Medium races methods on a smaller scale.

Question: Do the 3.5 rules have Small/Large equivalents for armor?

How many different versions of a pointy stick do you need? It just so happens that a sword is the simplest, most efficent way of jabbing things you don't like. I don't need custom weapons with flanges, hooks, barbs, and other assorted gadgets for small creatures. Nature takes the path of least resistance - and so does weaponcrafting. Sure, there might be small cosmetic differences. But for a game with only 3-4 stats to represent a weapon's abilities (damage, crit range, multiplier, plus range) you can't have THAT much variety. Pretty soon, every pointy metal stick starts to look the same.

So, when you're trying to make a simple weapon, you take some metal and bang on it till it's flat. Make it sharp, make it pointy, and make it handheld. You can call it a longsword (for medium humans) or a hoobie-rue (for small halflings), but the rules remain the same.

And now, all the halflings in my world will call their swords Hoobie-rue's!

 

[TheAuldGrump]

How many different versions of a pointy stick do you need? It just so happens that a sword is the simplest, most efficent way of jabbing things you don't like. I don't need custom weapons with flanges, hooks, barbs, and other assorted gadgets for small creatures. Nature takes the path of least resistance - and so does weaponcrafting. Sure, there might be small cosmetic differences. But for a game with only 3-4 stats to represent a weapon's abilities (damage, crit range, multiplier, plus range) you can't have THAT much variety. Pretty soon, every pointy metal stick starts to look the same.

So, when you're trying to make a simple weapon, you take some metal and bang on it till it's flat. Make it sharp, make it pointy, and make it handheld. You can call it a longsword (for medium humans) or a hoobie-rue (for small halflings), but the rules remain the same.

And now, all the halflings in my world will call their swords Hoobie-rue's!

Heh!

But the point is valid - halflings make smaller swords because the smaller weapons fit the halfling's smaller hands and arms.

Hooked hammers on the other hand are just silly - I will take a hoobie-roo every time over one of those silly things.

The Auld Grump, you can recognize the hooked hammer users, they all limp...

 

[Storyteller01]

How many different versions of a pointy stick do you need? It just so happens that a sword is the simplest, most efficent way of jabbing things you don't like. I don't need custom weapons with flanges, hooks, barbs, and other assorted gadgets for small creatures. Nature takes the path of least resistance - and so does weaponcrafting. Sure, there might be small cosmetic differences. But for a game with only 3-4 stats to represent a weapon's abilities (damage, crit range, multiplier, plus range) you can't have THAT much variety. Pretty soon, every pointy metal stick starts to look the same.

So, when you're trying to make a simple weapon, you take some metal and bang on it till it's flat. Make it sharp, make it pointy, and make it handheld. You can call it a longsword (for medium humans) or a hoobie-rue (for small halflings), but the rules remain the same.

And now, all the halflings in my world will call their swords Hoobie-rue's!

No no... a misunderstanding has occured (imagine that...).

Enworld being the site for character optimization, when was the last time you heard of someone ask for help creating the halfling calvary fighter, charging into battle with their armored pony, brilliantly shining full plate, and deadly (but Small) lance? When was the last time someone instilled fear with the gnomish barbarian and his mighty (but Small) two-handed sword?

Even with 'smaller' weapons, the initial problem hasn't changed. A shortsword does piercing, a Small longsword does slashing. Both do 1d6, and neither race has a Str advantage. Small races have the same problems, with the additional penalty of a -2 to hit with the majority of magical weapons.

So why not make two-man heavy crossbows, or create weapons take advantage of the halflings ranged attack bonus (an equivalent of the African Throwing Iron comes to mind, the compound bow another)? Why not take the raptorians foot bow and let the halflings have a go with it, giving them bonuses for using a mighty bow w/o the needed str (shades of the movie 'Hero')? Can't a halfling create a chatkcha (remember the first Beastmaster movie)?

Those examples, silly as they may sound, still seem more convincing then Small races fighting larger races with their weapons, on their terms.

Sorry. Kind of miffed that my favored race has gone from 'seldom played' to 'never seen outside a novel'.

 

[DungeonMaster]

Question: Do the 3.5 rules have Small/Large equivalents for armor?

No they don't and it's an interesting dichotomy. Because a pixie wearing plate mail gets +8 armor bonus from effectively aluminum foil just as a titan gets +8 armor bonus from 2 inch thick metal.

My honest opinion is that it's a poor abstraction from the get-go that larger weapons do more damage. It has little to do with the size of the spike being jammed into you - it's the force behind it that does the damage. A needle can kill you. But that's the system. Larger monsters generally have more strength and get damage from there but also get damage from larger weapons.
I don't on the other hand, have a better system to propose within the constraints of the dice we use for the game.

 

[Storyteller01]

My honest opinion is that it's a poor abstraction from the get-go that larger weapons do more damage. It has little to do with the size of the spike being jammed into you - it's the force behind it that does the damage.

I'd have to disagree on this one. Axes saw use because their mass either cleaved you in half or knocked you off balance. Trick to using one was maintaining balance and a central focus. The mass did more work than the footsoldier if used right. Anyone who's cut wood with one knows what I'm talking about.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

It is, you just don't get reach with the short spear. And to be honest, there's no reason why that style is better than another. It was widely used in a number of cultures, but it isn't the end all/be all of combat.

You don't get reach - which invalidates the entire concept of spear-and-shield fighting.

I'm not saying spear-and-shield should be strictly better than, say, sword-and-board or two-handed or two-weapon, just that it should be a valid style in the game, and that getting reach without sacrificing defense should be its primary goal.

I fixed this IMC by classing the longspear as a hand-and-a-half weapon like the bastard sword - simple in two hands, exotic in one.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

The thrusting sword (drusus/gladius) partnered with shield and pilum (a specialized 1 shot throwing spear) gained Rome the world.

The reason spear and shield or short sword and shield was so popular is because thrusting is 1) quicker than swinging; 2) more efficient than swinging; 3) takes less room than swinging; and 4) deadlier than swinging- very little of which is fully modeled in D&D.

 

[S'mon]

The most notable issue I'm noting here is that, scientifically speaking, a humanoid cannot be 500% larger than a 6' human. It couldn't breathe, let alone swing a sword.

A 6' human averages ca 200lbs, and there are certainly 1000 lb obese humans who manage to breathe, though their life expectancy is less. Certainly a 1000 lb biped is feasible, or much more - look at Tyrannosaurs! Maybe you need a higher oxygen content than the Earth's atmosphere currently has, but for a fantasy world that's a minor change. With it you can justify bipeds up to around 20', the size of the largest giants. Say your planet has slightly lighter gravity, et voila!

 

[Testament]

Enworld being the site for character optimization, when was the last time you heard of someone ask for help creating the halfling calvary fighter, charging into battle with their armored pony, brilliantly shining full plate, and deadly (but Small) lance?

Just FYI, that's a bad example. The Halfling Outrider/Cavalier combo may actually be one the most effective cavalry builds around, and has the added advantage that you can take it into a dungeon. At any rate, when you're trebling all the numbers for damage, the reduced damage dice and strength are kind of irrelevant, you're still approaching the point of absolute overkill.

And don't get me started on the abuse that can be pulled with a Halfling Paladin/Ranger/Outrider (with Devoted Tracker) and their uber-mount of doom. Throw a single level of Beastmaster in there to turn it up to 11.

Sorry. Kind of miffed that my favored race has gone from 'seldom played' to 'never seen outside a novel'.

:\ If you're talking about Halflings, then one of us has an isolated experience, and sporked if I can pick which one of us it is. I see heaps of halflings here, largely because they're considered one of the three top races (with Dwarf and Human taking the other two spots in no particular order) amongst the people I play with. Maybe other people can tell us their experience.