AEG downsizing

[Morgenstern]

WotC have also recently hired staff: Stephen Schubert and Mike Mearls being two.

Where did this come from?

 

[DaveMage]

There are companies out there that treat fans much better.

Heh.

You must not be using the WLD. AEG has been extremely generous with what it has allowed its fans to do with the World's Largest Dungeon. There is a fan site with massive amounts of player maps and other handouts, which AEG has not only allowed to exist, but has sent materials for ease of use. Both while at AEG and after, jim pinto (along with some of the authors) was a regular contributor to the WLD thread here, offering advice and his thoughts to make the dungeon better.

Granted, their web page support has been sub-standard, but IIRC, that has more to do with a lack of a web focus (read: staff) rather than poor treatment of fans.

 

[Jim Hague]

Brief post here, since Dave brought up WLD - the fan support for AEG products has always been the lifeblood of the games AEG put out. WLD still has tremendous support (which brings a tear to my eye), Spycraft has had dozens of sites, as did Stargate. Honestly, given that support out there by enthusiastic fans of their products, I doubt AEG/Zinser found it really necessary or economically expedient to do a lot of web support.

That being said - Morgenstern, couldja start a thread here somewhere with the conversion docs that're MIA with the forums down? My Stargate SG-0 players would worship you.

 

[Jim Hague]

I think that some of the problems may have been brought on by themselves. AEG took titles like 7th Sea, L5R, Dead Lands and such, then changed them to D20. Well, I bought those books because I like D20 stuff, but this put off their core fan base. So to try to get back the core fan base, they change the books to dual stat. Well, needless to say, the dual stat books put me off because I felt like I was paying for stuff I wasn't going to ever use. I'm sure some of the fans of the older systems felt the same way. Then this year they restart L5R with the old system. I would expect fans to drop like flies at this point, as they seem not to care about them but only the $$$$.

Point of fact - Deadlands was Pinnacle, not AEG.

That, coupled with the fact that the Warlord RPG is more than 2 years past due. I mean come on, they put out Worlds Largest Dungeon start to finish in about 6 months and tell fans this in no way slowed the dev of Warlords. They haven't even updated the Warlord RPG page in over a year.

I can't speak to Warlord, but the WLD wasn't put out start to finish in 6 months. Try closer to a year to 18 months, start to finish. I was a major contributor to the product (Regions I&M, and a bit of idea help on the Elven Garrison), so I think I can speak with a little authority on the topic. You've got your facts wrong, and given that, you sound like yet another bitter gamer with a chip on their shoulder.

No, I stear anybody who asks me away from their products.

There are companies out there that treat fans much better.

See the responses above. Dave pointed out, I pointed out, and Moregenstern's chimed in. You're dead wrong here.

 

[Wystan]

I think that some of the problems may have been brought on by themselves. AEG took titles like 7th Sea, L5R, Dead Lands and such, then changed them to D20. Well, I bought those books because I like D20 stuff, but this put off their core fan base. So to try to get back the core fan base, they change the books to dual stat. Well, needless to say, the dual stat books put me off because I felt like I was paying for stuff I wasn't going to ever use. I'm sure some of the fans of the older systems felt the same way. Then this year they restart L5R with the old system. I would expect fans to drop like flies at this point, as they seem not to care about them but only the $$$$.

That, coupled with the fact that the Warlord RPG is more than 2 years past due. I mean come on, they put out Worlds Largest Dungeon start to finish in about 6 months and tell fans this in no way slowed the dev of Warlords. They haven't even updated the Warlord RPG page in over a year.

No, I stear anybody who asks me away from their products.

There are companies out there that treat fans much better.

You sir obviously never look at their forums. They are very helpful and extremely nice.
They look out for their customers. They love their games.

 

[JustaPlayer]

I have looked on the Foums. All that I ever saw was multiple forums for Spycraft, L5R and something I can't remember at this time (can't refresh my memory as they don't even have boards any more). Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but they did have more games than that right?

Anyway, my point with WLD was that they announced it a released it in a time frame of 6 months or so. I'm sorry if I said start to finnish. It's obvious that they were working on it before they announced it. But this is even more disturbing to me. How long did they annouce Warlord before the product was to be released 6 months, a year? The product has been on their page for well over 2 years now with no real commitment to a release date in sight. One of the answeres I received from them more than a year ago was they had to change it from 3.0 to 3.5. I'm sorry, I don't see two years worth of changes there.

You say I have a chip on my shoulder. Well I say your damn right I do. They need to get their stuff together. The're like the early 90s Image Comics of the RPG business.

Sorry about DeadLands, that was my bad. Having never played that particular title myself somehow I always thought of it as AEG. *shrug*

 

[dpmcalister]

I have looked on the Foums. All that I ever saw was multiple forums for Spycraft, L5R and something I can't remember at this time (can't refresh my memory as they don't even have boards any more). Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but they did have more games than that right?

AEG have forums for L5R (RPG and CCG), Farscape (RPG), City of Heroes (CCG), Spycraft (RPG, CCG, and Living Spycraft), Stargate SG-1 (RPG), and WLD (RPG) - off the top of my head so there might be one or two more. I've been a member of their forums since they opened (April 2002) and I've never seen anything other than helpful comments and a hands-on approach from their writers and designers.

Sure, you're annoyed about Warlord, but don't have a dig at the entire company because one product hasn't been released

 

[FCWesel]

Unlike the employees of these other companies, AEG's staff has always been close to the fans, any non-announcement would become a huge bitch-fest on their forums.

If they hadn't actually closed down their forums...Musta fired the servers...

I have found their moderators, at least in the SG1 area, to be rather unfriendly.

EDIT: Spellin' error.

 

[mearls]

It's sad to hear about this while I'm in the middle of reading Spycraft 2.0. It is, IMO, the best RPG released this year. Nothing else comes close.

I don't think it's wise to assume this stems solely from the RPG end of things. AEG has taken gambles on quite a few TCGs over the past few years (Spycraft, Initial D, Humaliens, and others), and unfortunately it doesn't look like they panned out.

As long as AEG has L5R, I think they'll be fine.

 

[Jim Hague]

I have looked on the Foums. All that I ever saw was multiple forums for Spycraft, L5R and something I can't remember at this time (can't refresh my memory as they don't even have boards any more). Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but they did have more games than that right?

Spycraft, L5R, 7th Sea, Stargate, plus the myriad card games...a lot of forums.

Anyway, my point with WLD was that they announced it a released it in a time frame of 6 months or so. I'm sorry if I said start to finnish. It's obvious that they were working on it before they announced it. But this is even more disturbing to me. How long did they annouce Warlord before the product was to be released 6 months, a year? The product has been on their page for well over 2 years now with no real commitment to a release date in sight. One of the answeres I received from them more than a year ago was they had to change it from 3.0 to 3.5. I'm sorry, I don't see two years worth of changes there.

You say I have a chip on my shoulder. Well I say your damn right I do. They need to get their stuff together. The're like the early 90s Image Comics of the RPG business.

Sorry about DeadLands, that was my bad. Having never played that particular title myself somehow I always thought of it as AEG. *shrug*

And here you're showing how little you know about the publishing business in general and the RPG business in particular. There's plenty of folks like Moregnstern and ColPladoh that'll be happy to give exact details, I'm sure, but a good rule of thumb is this - you announce a product to generate interest, much like movie teasers, then continue work on the product as interest builds.

Given the vagaries of the industry - things like writers having personal emergencies, freelancers flaking out, budgetary constraints, printing problems - very few publishers make street date, but most do get close. Warlords is, what, a 5 page book series, each book being fairly hefty? The 3.5 changes were comprehensive enough, not to mention vetting OGC and OGL material, that i'm not at all surprised it's taking this long. Look at Privateer Press' Iron Kingdoms setting for another example, or Delta Green. Both are considered paragons in their respective genres, and both took a long time to get to press.

That chip on your shoulder? I'd suggest buffing that out. Coming on here and carrying out some personal grudge isn't going to get you very far at all.