After 20', does light just fizzle out?

[Hypersmurf]

If you want more realism, you'd let creatures see beyond 20 feet, but not far; you'd also have to severely restrict vison within the 20 foot radius, though.

Once you hit 1/2 concealment, you have to be within 5' of something to see it at all (Obscuring Mist spell).

I think your table there might be a little too severe... the guy with the torch wouldn't even be able to see something fifteen feet away from him without low-light vision...

-Hyp.

 

[Vaxalon]

Once you hit 1/2 concealment, you have to be within 5' of something to see it at all (Obscuring Mist spell).

That's only true for the Obscuring Mist spell. Other sorts of concealment don't work that way.

 

[graydoom]

I think the idea of having the light go down by one increment for every 20 feet. And it makes the most sense to me that way. Full light within 20 feet, moderate darkness from 20 to 40, and so on.
ALso seems to keep it consistent with the rules for low-light vision.

 

[trentonjoe]

The light ends at 20 feet. At 20 feet you can see a target just fine, at 21' 1" the target is in total darkness. Not very realistic but those are the rules. All the other suggestions are house rules not actual rules and they don't seem worth the trouble to me.

Same thing goes for all other types of vision (Dark, Low-light). Up to the radius they can see fine. 1" past the radius you can't see anything.

That's how I play.



Works okay for my group but then again none of us ever bothered to figure out the megameter power distance of sun in furlongs per fortnight either.

I guess we are just simple people.

 

[Hypersmurf]

That's only true for the Obscuring Mist spell. Other sorts of concealment don't work that way.

The example of one-half concelament (which is more concealment than "moderate darkness") is "dense fog at 5' (such as obscuring mist)".

To me, that suggests that the spell doesn't produce magical concealment, it produces dense fog (it's conjuration, not abjuration or illusion).

And that the effect of can't-see-past-five-feet is because it provides 1/2 concealment.

But that is just my interpretation.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Also seems to keep it consistent with the rules for low-light vision.

I like the way that man thinks!

-Hyp.

 

[reapersaurus]

Hypersmurf:
I think your ideas are quite sound, from a rules point of view, and from a reasonable point of view.

Anyone see any reason why a work-around to 3E not specifiying light illumination would be:
From 20' to 40' from a torch, combatants fight as in moderate darkness (10% miss chace).
From 40-60', near-total darkness (40% miss chance)
Beyond that, might as well be blind.

 

[Albereth]

Anyone see any reason why a work-around to 3E not specifiying light illumination would be:
From 20' to 40' from a torch, combatants fight as in moderate darkness (10% miss chace).
From 40-60', near-total darkness (40% miss chance)
Beyond that, might as well be blind.

Nope, I see nothing wrong with it and probably will adopt it into my campaign

 

[The Oracle]

Normal vision = lighted area or daylight
Lowlight vision = moonlight or starlight outside, or low-level light as from a glowing fungus inside a cave
darkvision = underground vision

I don't have any problem with these, you are solving problems that do not exist. The different types of light vision suit the different types of creatures that have them in their environments, underground, in starlight and moonlight (the condition of most nights except new moons with heavy cloud cover), or in daylight.

Your system will make most dungeons worthless, as you will allow your PC's to see all the way through long hallways and so on. I don't consider that to be very helpful. But go ahead, make a simple rule everyone can understand more complex. God knows we need to do more math during 3rd Edition...

Although that doesn't fit with the Concealment rules.

If 21'1" is in total darkness, the low-light vision is of no use. Low-light vision can't see in total darkness.

If 21'1" is near-total darkness, then low-light vision treats it as half-concealment instead of 9/10 concealment, with a 20% miss chance. We know they don't have a 20% miss chance at 21'1", so it can't be near-total darkness.

If 21'1" is moderate darkness, then low-light vision has no trouble. We know that this is the actual benefit low-light vision provides at 21'1" from a torch, therefore it must be in moderate darkness. For those without low-light vision, moderate darkness is 1/4 concealment, or a 10% miss chance.

-Hyp.

 

[Albereth]

Anyone see any reason why a work-around to 3E not specifiying light illumination would be:
From 20' to 40' from a torch, combatants fight as in moderate darkness (10% miss chace).
From 40-60', near-total darkness (40% miss chance)
Beyond that, might as well be blind.

Actually, I was thinking on this a bit and one thing does need to be pointed out. This should only be for those who do not have low-light or darkvision. Someone with low-light vision can see out to double the range of the light source as if it were lit. Those with darkvision can see out to 60 feet for the most part. Therefore, an elf standing just outside the range of the torch would be able to see clearly out to the 40 ft mark but then would be unable to see. If you start using these ranges it effectively lessens the low-light and darkvision capabilities of creatures and characters. Unbalancing?? Unknown. :shrug: