Agile Opportunist and HBO
- Thread starter BobTheNob
- Start date
Infiniti2000
First Post
They certainly do synchronize. An Opportunity Attack is simply a type of Opportunity Action, the type everyone gets. Agile Opportunist just gives you another type of Opportunity Action, namely when you get pulled, pushed, or slid into a square adjacent to an enemy. When you make the Opportunity Attack (an Opportunity Action) in that case, you can apply the Heavy Blade Opportunity feat.
Online Compendium said:
Infiniti2000
First Post
Note, however, that if you use Agile Opportunist against an opponent, then that's your Opportunity Action against that opponent for that round (until your next turn). So, if he then decides to shoot his bow at you while adjacent you wouldn't be able to attack him again as an OA.
Also, remember that agile opportunist may or may not be used when you are forced to move by an ally. Rules for opportunity actions say that they are in response to *enemy actions*, so the feat might not trigger when you are pushed next to an enemy by your wizard or warlord.
The official rule might already be clarified for this, but when I was looking for it some time ago, there was none.
The official rule might already be clarified for this, but when I was looking for it some time ago, there was none.
Shin Okada
Explorer
I disagree with Infiniti2000 in this case.
Opportunity attack is just one of many opportunity actions a character may take.
Various powers and feats may allow you to make some kind of attack as an opportunity action. But unless specifically written so, such an attack is not an "opportunity attack".
For example, Primal Storm power (PHB 2 P.94) lets you make Close Burst secondary attack as an opportunity action. That is an opportunity action and an attack. But that is not an opportunity attack.
HBO specifically says "When you make an opportunity attack".
Agile Opportunist lets you make a melee basic attack as an opportunity action. But that is different from making an opportunity attack.
So, when making a melee basic attack thanks to Agile Opportunist feat, that is not an opportunity attack and thus, you can only use the attack written in the description of that feat = melee basic attack.
On the other hand, for example, Polearm Gamble feat says,
In this case, you are making an opportunity attack and thus can use the benefit of HBO feat.
Opportunity attack is just one of many opportunity actions a character may take.
Various powers and feats may allow you to make some kind of attack as an opportunity action. But unless specifically written so, such an attack is not an "opportunity attack".
For example, Primal Storm power (PHB 2 P.94) lets you make Close Burst secondary attack as an opportunity action. That is an opportunity action and an attack. But that is not an opportunity attack.
HBO specifically says "When you make an opportunity attack".
Agile Opportunist lets you make a melee basic attack as an opportunity action. But that is different from making an opportunity attack.
So, when making a melee basic attack thanks to Agile Opportunist feat, that is not an opportunity attack and thus, you can only use the attack written in the description of that feat = melee basic attack.
On the other hand, for example, Polearm Gamble feat says,
In this case, you are making an opportunity attack and thus can use the benefit of HBO feat.
T
TDarien
Guest
Untrue. The normal rules for opportunity actions are if an enemy leaves an adjacent space (not shifting) or making a ranged attack while adjacent. Any power that grants you opportunity actions (attacks or otherwise) disregard that requirement
Agile opportunist says "pulled, pushed, or slid" it does not matter if this was the result of an enemy's action, or an ally's.
tiornys
Explorer
No, you're confusing Opportunity Attacks and Opportunity Actions. Opportunity Attacks are provoked by an enemy walking/running out of an adjacent square or by making a ranged attack (among other triggers), but they are only a subset of Opportunity Actions. The relevant rule explicitly cites Opportunity Actions, which includes but is not limited to Opportunity Attacks.
PHB said:
Unless something explicitly overrides that general rule, it holds. Agile Opportunist creates a new trigger for an Opportunity Action that is a melee attack, but it doesn't override that rule.
The real debate is whether or not the quoted text is intended to be rules text. It doesn't appear in the Rules Compendium, and customer service has repeatedly ruled that Agile Opportunist triggers on ally actions. But, if you accept the quoted text as rules text, it's pretty straightforward to demonstrate that Agile Opportunist only triggers on enemy actions.
Either way, the feat is flawed. It's either so situational as to be pointless, or overpowered and breakable. It should probably use Immediate Actions instead of Opportunity Actions.
t~
edit: oh, and for the OP, Heavy Blade Opportunity does not work in conjunction with Agile Opportunist. The former allows you to use an at-will power instead of a basic melee attack when you make an Opportunity Attack, whereas the latter creates a new type of Opportunity Action that allows you to make a basic melee attack when triggered.
Last edited:
That are not all of the OA rules. One often overlooked rule is not under the opportunity actions entry on PHB 1 page 268 but under the actions on other turns entry on PHB 1 page 269 and it states "An opportunity action must be triggered by an enemy’s action"
And since it doesn't say that it does not matter if this was the result of an enemy's action, or an ally's, it contains no specific rule to override the general actions on other turns rules from PHB 1 page 269
T
TDarien
Guest
I wasn't confusing them. The rules state that the only type of opportunity action you can generally take is an opportunity attack, which has the triggers I quoted.
I see where you're getting this from, and I see your point. However, the part about having to be triggered by enemy actions doesn't appear in the section defining opportunity actions. Which I'm sure where the debate over the clause you quote stems from. When I referenced the rules, I didn't even look at the "Actions on other turns" paragraph, because Opportunity Actions has it's own section elsewhere. If it were required that opportunity actions be triggered only by enemy actions, it should be stated in the rules governing opportunity actions, which it is not.
I see where you're getting this from, and I see your point. However, the part about having to be triggered by enemy actions doesn't appear in the section defining opportunity actions. Which I'm sure where the debate over the clause you quote stems from. When I referenced the rules, I didn't even look at the "Actions on other turns" paragraph, because Opportunity Actions has it's own section elsewhere. If it were required that opportunity actions be triggered only by enemy actions, it should be stated in the rules governing opportunity actions, which it is not.
tiornys
Explorer
Fair enough. Still, those triggers only apply to a specific type of opportunity action (i.e. an opportunity attack), and clearly don't apply to the opportunity action created by Agile Opportunist. You may not have had them confused, but your language use created the potential for confusion (I do see what you were saying, I just think you could have been a bit more precise with your language).
Like I said, it's certainly debatable whether that quote is intended as rules text. On the one hand, it's in the PHB, as part of the rules. On the other hand, it's in the section of the rules about taking your turn, and it's not in the section of the rules about specific action types. It's also not in the Compendium (the whole section on Taking Your Turn seems to be absent). And that's about the substance of the debate.
Until and unless WotC answers the issue with a FAQ ruling or errata, it's going to be up to individual DM's to rule on this one. Personally, I favor the enemy only interpretation, but only because the other interpretation makes Agile Opportunist overpowered.
t~
