D&D 4E AICN Massawyrm's 4E Review - Part 3

[Mouseferatu]

Looks as though the Tactical aspect of the battles are going to be a biggie in the game, Not a bad thing, I just hope it does'nt take away the RPG aspect of the game too much.

It hasn't for us, at least.

And for the record, I hated using minis in 3E. I was always one of the few voices arguing against them, in my group.

In 4E? I have no objection to using them. The suite of movement-based options and abilities has turned me around. I'm still not a collector--I'm perfectly happy using multi-colored dice or something in place of "official" minis--but I no longer mind, and in fact look forward to, pulling out the grid.

 

[WhatGravitas]

The most interesting tidbit, to me, was this:

• No metallic dragons in the first Monster Manual.

Sad panda here. Not a dealbreaker, but one of the things, that genuinely disappoint me about 4E.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Knight Otu]

No metallics? Not cool. Very not cool. No matter how easy monster creation is, we're talking about 5 monsters with 3 to 6 different versions, or 15 to 30 stat blocks, of the largest fashion that 4E has to offer. No dragons below Large is ok, though.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Perhaps one reason they didn't put Metallics in was to emphasize the fact that Chromatics can also be in the same place as Metallics?

 

[The Lost Muse]

I've used counters, sticky tack, and those glass beads you get at craft stores as a very cheap and servicible alternative for minis for a long time. Monopoly counters and chess pieces could work just as well I'm guessing. And I bet that if you hate minis there's still a way to play the game without them.

 

[Peter LaCara]

Well, the lack of metallics makes me kind of sad, but then I remembered that they have 14 pages in the MM devoted to dragons alone already. Not including them is clearly a space issue, not a design issue.

 

[Bold or Stupid]

I can't help but suspect that Massawyrm is used to using minis all the time, so to him minis on grids seem the natural thing. On the other hand others of us who don't use minis see the rules as working better without. This suggests the rules are written in such a way that they encourage and enhance your natural play style. This maybe wishful thinking on my part but it will be cool if it's true.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

I can't help but suspect that Massawyrm is used to using minis all the time, so to him minis on grids seem the natural thing. On the other hand others of us who don't use minis see the rules as working better without. This suggests the rules are written in such a way that they encourage and enhance your natural play style. This maybe wishful thinking on my part but it will be cool if it's true.

Dungeon & Dragon Miniatures fans (like myself) will be happy to know that several of your favorite minis

Yeah I think part of his enthusiasm has to do with the fact that he probably plays the mini's game. Unlike Rodrigo's review of 4E game play this just seems far from fair and impartial. His criticism really isnt much of a criticism at all it just seems like he's just gushing all over the game. I'm glad he enjoys it, but more reviews along the line of Rodrigo's would work for me better.

 

[lkjopajdowma]

I'm slightly concerned about the requirement of minis, as our group has never really used them on a grid, mostly just setting them out to get a general idea of where everyone is, and that's only been a recent(within the last couple years) development as we ran into way too many instances of misunderstanding where someone was.

We just started(last week) trying to use an actual grid, and it didn't work that well, but part of it I attribute to the inane setup one of the guys did(our group in one corner, the bad guys in the other, so everything was an angle), and one of our players has confided in me he despises the use of the grid, and that he hates the diagonal movement stuff, when I told him 4e was switching to 1-1-1-1 movement, he said that was even worse.

I'm not sure if we're giving it another shot tomorrow night. I'd like to, but it's a democracy.

I think part of the bad experience was that we had never used them in that way before, and counting squares seemed like a needless thing when we were doing fine before. From the characters and rules we've seen so far it seems like 4e will hinge slightly more on the use of minis, but I don't think it will be impossible to play without them, and we'll likely continue with the minis but without the grid. The only issue I really forsee is the use of shifts outside a grid, but I don't think it should be too hard to figure out.

I hope anyway. I honestly don't mind a grid system that much, so if it's required for more streamlined play, no big deal to me...it's the other players in the group that will be adverse to it.

 

[Corinth]

Is the first Monster Manual focused upon unaligned or evil monsters, the sort that are standard-issue dungeon fodder?