Aid another in attacks?

[Evilhalfling]

if using a swarm of 24 opponents I perfer 4 attacks each at with 5 aiding each attacker using a percentage for sucessful aid attacks -
this creates more meaningful damage from horde attacks.

I remember a swarmfighting feat from CW, does anyone have the details?

 

[Caliban]

if using a swarm of 24 opponents I perfer 4 attacks each at with 5 aiding each attacker using a percentage for sucessful aid attacks -
this creates more meaningful damage from horde attacks.

I remember a swarmfighting feat from CW, does anyone have the details?

Swarmfighting allows two small creatures to occupie the same square with no penalties, and gives them an attack bonus equal to the number of other creatures with swarmfighting who threaten the target (Max atttack bonus equal to your Dex bonus).

 

[James McMurray]

Its original version in Dragon magazine did not cap the attack bonus. While it can still be a fun feat to give a group of kobolds, its no longer as scary as it was.

 

[Darklone]

One nice use for aid another (in groups): You only need one big guy with Power Attack who already hits pretty well...

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Or when the BBEG has a godly AC...

 

[Evilhalfling]

I had a wolf pack that was bonded to a 3rd ed druid, 4-5 wolves
The two alpha's would flank and attack, two other wolves would use aid another to increase chance to hit and the beta male would hold, and use aid another to defend once the enemy had started an attack.
when at 4 wolves the female would alternate attacks and aids.
It was a lovely team, going from levels 4-8
but it started to suffer from huge damage at higher levels. It eventually became a hivemind ally rather than a bonded animal.

 

[Conaill]

So, who's going to come up with the nice mathematical analysis of exactly when Aide Another gives a better damage output than hoping for a 20 on a bunch of individual attacks?

 

[Darklone]

So, who's going to come up with the nice mathematical analysis of exactly when Aide Another gives a better damage output than hoping for a 20 on a bunch of individual attacks?

Easy. Nearly only if your ally really only hits on a 20 If he needs more, Aid another is worthless, if he needs less... (and you as well)... too many parameters.
It's not worth it most of the time for two guys with bad chances. For one guy with some chances and some weaker buddies who will most likely make the check to aid him, it's useful. So which parameters do you want to include?

Yesterday I had three shots, only hit on a 20... hit twice Saved the party! Wohoo!

Who cares for Aid Another.

 

[Conaill]

Easy. Nearly only if your ally really only hits on a 20 If he needs more, Aid another is worthless, if he needs less... (and you as well)... too many parameters.

The "only when you need a 20" may be true for two attackers with equal stats, but for multiple attackers or with one better attacker, the dpicture can become very different.

Oh what the heck, let me just do the math myself. I think the following is correct even if you include crit damage (because it can just be represented as an extra % to average damage):


AT1, D1: attack bonus and avg damage for flunkies
AT2, D2: attack bonus and avg damage for ally being aided (typically, AT2>AT1, or D2>D1)
AC: armor class, duh
N: number of flunkies using Aide Another (so total number of attackers is N+1)

P(X) = 1/20 if X<1, 19/20 if X>19, X/20 otherwise (accounts for automatic hits and misses)


dmg on individual attacks = N P(AT1-AC+21) D1 + P(AT2-AC+21) D2
dmg using Aide Another = P(AT2+2NP(AT1+11)-AC+21) D2

Obviously you want to be in the regime where the aided ally has a total attack bonus which is between 1 and 19 away from the AC to hit, so the second equation is within the linear domain of P(X). In that case, the second equation simplifies to:

dmg using Aide Another = [AT2+2NP(AT1+11)-AC+21] D2 / 20


Now, if the ally receiving the Aide Another's has a 1/20 or better chance of hitting without a crit even before being aided, this simplifies dramatically. In that case, Aide Another will almost *always* be beneficial, because each flunkie is essentially trading off (1/20th of) one attack against armor class AC with damage D1, for two attacks agains armor class 10 with damage D2, i.e.

2 P(AT1+11) D2 > P(AT1-AC+21) D1


For the case where the ally couldn't have hit the target AC without a crit threat before receiving Aide (and assuming AT1<=AT2), the first equation simplifies to:

dmg on individual attacks = (N D1 + D2) / 20

so Aide Another will be beneficial when

[AT2+2NP(AT1+11)-AC+21] D2 > N D1 + D2

i.e., when the probability of hitting after AA is greater than (N D1 + D2) / 20D2; or if D1=D2, if the probability after Aide is greater than the total number of attackers divided by 20.