Aiming Fireballs soi they don't hit the party?

[FreeTheSlaves]

I'd rule that the fireball goes off exactly where the RAW allow it (while always with the unwritten right to veto even core rules that offend my sensibilities).

If queried, I'd give a description along the lines of:

"The fiery blast explodes where you envision it to do the most harm - the mechanics of the magic does the rest."

If queried a 2nd time for such a minor issue I'd invoke the end of session clause which instantly vilifies the offender, until he suitably atones by doing a round of coffee & biccies. Who knows in the pause period I may have got it wrong.

 

[S'mon]

I can see several tables I'll be avoiding in the future. Squares are part of the game, folks.

*ugh*

 

[LordSkull]

If the player lack's confidence in his ability to guess ranges than I give him a DC10 level test with an Int modifier to be able to measure. (Yes, that means that high level wizards can always measure, it is not an attack roll, just guessing range.)
The Auld Grump

That sounds very interesting. And brings the Characters experience factor into the players POV. Theoretically a High level wizard is much more accurite and precice then a novice spellcaster fresh out of the academy. I may consider taking something like that into account in my future games as a house rule.
I like my games to have a good bit of fantasy realism to them so my players actually FEEL the world they are living in to the best of a RPGs ability.

 

[Mirage_Patrick]

I'm sorta curious as to the people who argue that there is a "chance" (insert method of figuring it out) that the PC's will get hit while on the edges of the fireball blast.

Does this also mean that if you lay down a fireball in the middle of a horde of enemies that there is that same chance that every enemy on the perifery (sp?) gets hit by those same rules?

 

[dcollins]

I can see several tables I'll be avoiding in the future. Squares are part of the game, folks.

Truth, be told, they're optional. It's not in the SRD which defines the core mechanics. And here's what it says in my DMG under "Using Miniatures and Grids":

While this is a game of imagination, props and visual aids can help everyone imagine the same thing, avoid confusion, and enhance the entire game play experience. If you use miniatures or counters as described in Chapter 1: Dungeon Mastering, use the following guidelines to assist tactical-level play...

Notice that it says the grid rules are "guidelines", they "can help", maybe, "if you use" them. I would recommend you not be so dogmatic, because lots of people don't use grids at all in their D&D play.

In fact, one of the biggest complaints at my table has been how long the D&D grid-based combat takes. Some former players have vowed not to play D&D anymore because it's gotten too complicated in-fight. Frequently now (most of the time), I avoid using a grid entirely and just describe situations and distances verbally -- my players seem much relieved when I do this, things feel more flexible and run more briskly.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

I'm sorta curious as to the people who argue that there is a "chance" (insert method of figuring it out) that the PC's will get hit while on the edges of the fireball blast.

Does this also mean that if you lay down a fireball in the middle of a horde of enemies that there is that same chance that every enemy on the perifery (sp?) gets hit by those same rules?

If they are in hand to hand with the PCs who are targeted then yes, just like the PCs. Combat is supposed to be fluid the characters, PCs and NPCs alike are not nailed into their 5' square and may zig when they shudda zagged. I would make damage half in any event, quarter if they make their saves.

If they are just standing there then no, neither one would have a chance to be acidently broiled.

The Auld Grump

 

[Storyteller01]

Lets think about this from a fantasy realism standpoint. Think about all the training your typical wizard is susposed to have had. As well as his usually high intelligence. Min 13 for fireball use if I am not mistaken which while not genius level is still above average. Now take all this and try to tell me that he could not place his spell where it is susposed to go or calculate where on a grid it should fall to avoid hurting his friends. Think of all the novice wizards who would not last 30 seconds outside of the academy if they could not precicely target an area effect spell.

Especially since fighters are expected to place attacks on targets only millimeters in size.

And let's not forget the archer who hits an apple at one hundred yards, or a head in combat at tyhe same distance, or the sniper who hits a human at 2 miles, or...

 

[Storyteller01]

You have that backwards. Fireball _is_ a spread. Gaseous type explosions are usually spreads while light bomb style energy blasts, such as holy smite, are bursts. Although there are exceptions such as the energy burst psionic power.

So it's akin to a giant Molotav Cocktail (that spreads in all directions, including up)?

Not a snark or jab. Real question here.

 

[Chorn]

So it's akin to a giant Molotav Cocktail (that spreads in all directions, including up)?

That's the feel I get from the text and the way the diagrams illustrate the effects. When I read it, I just pictured spreads as behaving like a gas or liquid. Put some of it somewhere and give it some direction and watch it flow naturally around obstacles since it's just a bunch of individual molecules pushing against one another looking for the path of least resistance in their movement.

I picture bursts as acting like an explosion of photons. A bunch of light rays that travel perfectly straight until hitting an obstacle and stopping all within an instant. But what about bursts that are matter based in their effect like an acid energy burst? As a spread it could probably be a concentrated ball of liquid that explodes outward into a fine mist. As a burst, I see the effect as being similar but much more instantaneous. Maybe something like a hollow, monomolecular acid sphere that explodes from the center point to the edge of its area of effect in a single instant.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Just a point:

If you force your wizards to make attack rolls to get fireballs through gaps that are potentially some 5ft wide, then what happens when they miss?

The fireball strikes an enemy and detonates...

Given that it already hit him, does he get a save?

Can I aim to hit him instead of missing him?

etc etc.

Frankly - wizards do little enough damage as is without ridiculous rules about not being able to work out where the spell hits, and rolling to see if he misses a gap that is 5 feet wide. Honestly - do you know just how damn big that is?