D&D General Al-Qadim, Campaign Guide: Zakhara, and Cultural Sensitivity

[WarDriveWorley]

Is it? 1001 Nights was mentioned several times and that didn't exactly strike me as byzantine/roman or greek. Maybe Sassanid, I am not well versed with them.

1001 Nights was compiled during the Islamic Golden age, but many of the stories predate Islam. If I remember correctly some of them trace back to Egyptian, Persian, and Indian origins.

 

[MGibster]

@MGibster, there's also the fact that France hasn't been exploited in the same way as a lot of other cultures have been.

You missed the part where I acknowledged that, but if only it were so simple. A few years back, the OP of a thread here pointed to various games including Legend of the Five Rings as cultural appropriation and therefore hate speech. But why? Do you think Japanese people would view L5R as a misuse of their culture and take offense? I'm guessing the answer is no, at least not any more offended than I am about the cultural appropriation of the American cowboy in Cowboy BeBop. Like the United States, Japan is a wealthy country that isn't being exploited and they willingly profit from the culture they export worldwide. i.e. The Japanese and the United States are willing participants in cultural exchange.

But it's more complicated than that because we're not just talking about Japan. We've also got to include Japanese Americans and even Asian Americans in general. Are either of those groups an oppressed people here in the United States? There's certainly a history of oppression so I'll say yes, especially in recent years as violence has increased against Asian Americans during the COVID pandemic. But it does raise a question, what group had their culture appropriated by the creators of L5R? Did they appropriate Asian Americans or Asians? Is there a difference?

 

[Micah Sweet]

That said, I am not the spokesperson for an entire culture. That's just my personal opinion, but perhaps the writers of the new supplements reached a different conclusion after talking with sensitivity readers.

Sensitivity readers, like WotC themselves, are inherently conservative. If anyone involved thinks that someone might be offended, and raise a public stink that would bring the company bad press and lead to decreased sales (far and away the most important thing to WotC), they're going to encourage them to refrain. This leads to bland settings that are nonetheless praised by the internet pundits of our time, and the cycle continues.

 

[Umbran]

Is it?

Yep. Just to take a very popular example - Jinn are spirits from pre-Islamic mythology and legend.

1001 Nights was mentioned several times and that didn't exactly strike me as byzantine/roman or greek. Maybe Sassanid, I am not well versed with them.

1001 Nights is not made of original stories - it is a collection of much older tales, just like many of Grimm's Fairy Tales have pre-Christian origins.

 

[Ixal]

1001 Nights was compiled during the Islamic Golden age, but many of the stories predate Islam. If I remember correctly some of them trace back to Egyptian, Persian, and Indian origins.

You are right, so most likely Sassanid. Although the most told stories (in the west Ali Baba and Aladdin) were only added later and thus are most likely Islamic.

 

[Micah Sweet]

We can talk meaningfully about collectives without necessarily having spokespeople or strict hierarchies within that collective (my current research is actually on collective responsibility for such large, disorganised groups!). And in the case of what is or isn't acceptable in the representation of a culture, people who are specifically well-versed in a culture's history and practices would definitely know better than you or me when it comes to judging the appropriateness of a given work. It's the whole reason why the job position of sensitivty reader exists.

I feel sensitivity readers exist primarily as a marketing tool to avoid bad press and reduced sales.

 

[Guest 7034872]

1001 Nights is not made of original stories - it is a collection of much older tales, just like many of Grimm's Fairy Tales have pre-Christian origins.

Right. And what's more, the book was first put together by a Frenchman.

 

[Ondath]

Sensitivity readers, like WotC themselves, are inherently conservative. If anyone involved thinks that someone might be offended, and raise a public stink that would bring the company bad press and lead to decreased sales (far and away the most important thing to WotC), they're going to encourage them to refrain. This leads to bland settings that are nonetheless praised by the internet pundits of our time, and the cycle continues.

I think this is an uncharitable way of looking at things. The people I've seen who work as sensitivity readers tend to be quite progressive-leaning politically, and I really don't think the settings themselves in modern 5E are bland, the problem is mostly that there are no settings and WotC's most new supplements tell you to just make it up. But when a setting is fleshed out, you get a lot of interesting things as was the case in Eberron and Wildmount (where the adventure Call of the Netherdeep shows the Middle East inspired city of Marquet and heavy themes of abuse and betrayal with well, IMO).

One exception to this is the Strixhaven book which managed to turn dangerous and exciting magic university with opposing philosophies into quirky fantasy uni where you work at Starbucks and romance cute folks from the theatre club, but I'd say that's an outlier.

 

[Ixal]

, just like many of Grimm's Fairy Tales have pre-Christian origins.

That I doubt. Grimms was compiled in the 19th century and it is very doubtful that any story survived for nearly 2 millenia without being fundamentally altered several times so that they do not reflect any of the non-christian roots they once had if they had one at all.
Some stories like snow white can even be traced to specific events in the middle ages.

Edit: Missquote.

 

[Guest 7034872]

That I doubt. Grimms was compiled in the 19th century and it is very doubtful that any story survived for nearly 2 millenia without being fundamentally altered several times so that they do not reflect any of the non-christian roots they once had if they had one at all.
Some stories like snow white can even be traced to specific events in the middle ages.

Antoine Galland

There are earlier versions from all over the Islamic world, certainly, but Galland's was the first to include Aladdin, so the version we know today comes from him.