Al-Qadim: Land of Fate (5e conversion)

[Ath'kethin]

I don't really see why that's true at all. Just focus on the Al-Qadim that you know and ignore the rest of the FR which might officially be on the same planet as Zahkara but doesn't really seem to have much of an effect on it. Just write your adventures and supplements as if it's NOT in the Realms. You'll be fine.

As I don't follow the Forgotten Realms at all, the whole Sundering-not-Sundering-un-Sundering-SpellVD-whatever thing wouldn't actually even have occurred to me (I don't actually know what any of those things are) except that an "update" of Al-Qadim in this very thread tried to incorporate it.

Another (major) issue I see is that in 5e, every character type is represented by a subclass of one of a few central concepts, and those central concepts don't always work for Al-Qadim. Chief among the issues is that most of the wizard kits form the setting don't actually cast spells; they use spell slots to power other abilities.

On the simpler side of this is the Sha'ir, and you can see the difficulties people have had converting that class. The problem, of course, is that every full caster in 5e starts with spells at 1st level and separates out into specialties and archetypes a level or more later. The sha'ir needs to be different from 1st level, because the way it uses spell slots is fundamentally different from the way every other spellcasting class uses spell slots. Making the class a warlock instead of a wizard or sorcerer makes a huge amount of conceptual sense, but we are still stuck with 1. a different spellcasting method than the 'norm' for D&D and 2. the fact that a sha'ir needs its gen from 1st level as well, which complicates choosing the Pact of the Chain - never mind the fact that the gen operates differently from other familiars in the game anyway.

Other wizard kits can also be better represented by other classes; using the monk to form a Mystic of Nog, or example, makes at least a little bit of sense. But what about the mechanician? The kit used spell slots to power toys, and again did it from first level. Shoehorning that kit into the 5e paradigm is challenging at best. I've been working on it for a while, and like the sha'ir I don't think it's possible without fundamentally altering the way 5e approaches classes.

Honestly, these almost work best as NPCs in 5e, because NPCs don't follow the same rules as PCs, but what if a player wants to be one?

I almost think that 5e needs an additional subsystem (kits, basically) to represent these options. Something that slides on over the main class and alters the way it functions the same way kits did. I don't think it changes much in a class's power level to have spell slots go toward something other than spells, but doing so is completely outside of the 5e design setup.

 

[Bravesword]

@Ath-kethin, I disagree with your statements in some points.

While Zakhara indeed have a different feeling than a “standard” FR setting, it also have some connections with Toril as a whole (which surely may or may not be explored, and I agree with you on this).

Some foreign gods described in Al-Qadim as foreign powers represent in fact different approaches or interpretations of Faerunian Gods. While the deities relationship with its worshipers are indeed quite different, and considering that we could have here cool unique opportunities to roleplay such relationships, I do not believe that this is a problem after all. The AD&D 2nd Edition supplement Faiths and Avatars even describe essentially the spheres of influence of Toril Powers, and in this sense Kara Tur and Zakhara are totally independent and outside of the influence of Faerunian deities.

We could use the monsters presented in the A,-Qadim Monstrous Compendium as a whole to begin to adapt old entities to the updated Lad of Fate for D&D 5e, without having to adapt western creatures and mythology to the setting, just like you said. In other cases, beings like genasi and tieflings could be included in Zakhara with little or no effort at all (I personally believe that genasi is much more suited for Zakhara than dwarves, elves and goblins, for example), so I think that if we keep the flavor or the setting while including new stuff, this could be a great way to update the setting.

With respect to the argument that Zakhara is not Arabian or Middle Eastern influenced, I do not see things this way. The Arabian Nights themselves were based upon a fantastic setting with genies, dervishes and fantastic creatures within a, well, Middle Eastern influence, with oasis, vizirs, sands and genies, which have their roots in Arabian, Persian, Iranian, Turkish and others cultures. In this sense, both Arabian Nights and Al-Qadim drank from the same cultural fountain, just like FR received most of his influence from European cultures and Tolkien.

Regarding your metaplot argument, in this case I believe that you could be right. The fact that the Al-Qadim is free of a huge “metaplot” may be a quality, but also could represent in some cases a lack of evolution or change in a fantasy setting, IMHO. The metaplot itself could not represent the drive of the setting, a problem that unfortunately FR suffered in its long list of Realms Shaking Events. But an evolution or development of local politics, the presentation of new threats or some “recent history” section could reflect that Zakharan culture could be so exciting and alive like its western counterpart (and maybe without the metaplot heavy problems of Faerun, in fact).

In this respect, just like @DrOct said – keep what you like and ignore what does not make sense to you.

 

[DrOct]

As I don't follow the Forgotten Realms at all, the whole Sundering-not-Sundering-un-Sundering-SpellVD-whatever thing wouldn't actually even have occurred to me (I don't actually know what any of those things are) except that an "update" of Al-Qadim in this very thread tried to incorporate it.

Again, what other people people choose to do with it is up to them, you're under no obligation to follow "official canon" or what any other fan does with their own stuff. The DM's Guild is not really about forcing everyone to follow canon. In fact the submitted stuff is pretty explicitly not canon. It's just a place where fans can put up their own creations for sale, and it has a limited set of WotC IP that you're allowed to use in that stuff if you want. Right now they're only letting you use Forgotten Realms IP. But they've generously decided that since "officially" Al Qadim, Kara-Tur, and Maztica are in the Realms (though I agree those connections have always seemed tenuous at best) those are available toys for you to play with too. But no one from WotC is going to show up and tell you you need to take down your adventure because it doesn't follow the "official" events of the setting. They might do that if you use stuff from other WotC properties that they haven't said are allowed (yet) for DM's Guild submissions, but it's not going to happen just because your product doesn't acknowledge some event that happened in an official supplement a while back.

As for the rest... I think if your goal is to make a note-for-note remake of the 2e classes, yes you're going to be frustrated if you try to fit it into an existing class, and you're going to have to do a lot more work. Possibly including just making a whole new class, or subsystem yourself (which you can certainly do! And even put it up for sale!).

Personally, I think the Sha'ir's that have been posted here are quite good and are good reinterpretations of class, capturing the flavor and general feeling of the class, while fitting in reasonably well with existing 5e mechanics. They're new interpretations of the class, not recreations. I did something similar for ACKS a while back that I feel pretty good about. But if you think there's a better, more radical way to go about it? I very much encourage you to go for it! It'll no doubt be very interesting! Please post your results and thoughts here!

 

[Ath'kethin]

@Ath-kethin, I disagree with your statements in some points.

With respect to the argument that Zakhara is not Arabian or Middle Eastern influenced, I do not see things this way. The Arabian Nights themselves were based upon a fantastic setting with genies, dervishes and fantastic creatures within a, well, Middle Eastern influence, with oasis, vizirs, sands and genies, which have their roots in Arabian, Persian, Iranian, Turkish and others cultures. In this sense, both Arabian Nights and Al-Qadim drank from the same cultural fountain, just like FR received most of his influence from European cultures and Tolkien.

I should be clearer. Obviously Al-Qadim is MIddle Eastern in nature.

But there is a world of difference between the type of fantasy Arabia portrayed in Al-Qadim and that portrayed in most other Middle Eastern game supplements.

 

[Quickleaf]

If myself or others among us were to put together an Al-Qadim product on DM's Guild, what would you guys and gals want to see?

I'm thinking a free character conversion document with Al-Qadim character options updated for 5e, and a separate cheap Al-Qadim adventure maybe 16-32 pages long for 1st to 3rd level?

 

[MessiahMushroom]

Here's what I've been working on so far:

http://www.naturalcrit.com/homebrew/share/4yKBrHwux

It's obviously a work-in-progress and if anyone knows anything about converting html into a .pdf file, I'd love to hear your method. The cleric subclasses are by /u/coolgamertagbro on Reddit and a lot of the other class info is from [MENTION=20323]Quickleaf[/MENTION] and his contributions here.

The sorcerer, wizard, and sha'ir warlock are on their way. I've converted a bunch of Zakharan monsters too which will be added later. I'd love to hear what do you guys think.

 

[Quickleaf]

Here's what I've been working on so far:

http://www.naturalcrit.com/homebrew/share/4yKBrHwux

It's obviously a work-in-progress and if anyone knows anything about converting html into a .pdf file, I'd love to hear your method. The cleric subclasses are by /u/coolgamertagbro on Reddit and a lot of the other class info is from [MENTION=20323]Quickleaf[/MENTION] and his contributions here.

The sorcerer, wizard, and sha'ir warlock are on their way. I've converted a bunch of Zakharan monsters too which will be added later. I'd love to hear what do you guys think.

Such a great resource you've put together! Did you add the images to Chapter 1 using your site or did you have to go in and manually edit the HTML? I didn't see a way to add images using your site before.

The cleric domains definitely look like they've borrowed from my work, though I like the changes you or /u/coolgamertagbro made with the Prosperity domain. I like that there was an effort made to limit the Hakima's ability to see thru illusion, however allowing a number of creatures to see thru illusion equal to 2 + Wisdom modifier usually will allow the entire party to see thru illusions. That's very powerful for 2nd level, as others criticized my original idea, since true seeing is a 6th level spell not available until PCs hit 11th level. I'd suggest toning it down...something like granting an immediate save or skill check vs. illusion with advantage to all creatures of the Hakima's choice with 60 feet. Something like that.

For converting HTML > PDF, your best bet is spring for Acrobat Pro. If not, then there apparently are other options - like http://www.win2pdf.com/doc/index.html?html-to-pdf.htm - though I can't vouch for their accuracy.

I did try the "Print View" option on your site, and then printing that and saving as a PDF, but the formatting came out all wonky.

 

[MessiahMushroom]

Oh and, I think a character class/kit conversion document would be the most helpful, yes. An adventure (with a template for future adventures) would be super too. I'd like to see a Zakharan bestiary and an item / equipment overhaul too. I forget where I found this but it's an awesome 3.5 resource that wouldn't need much work to convert:

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?res...58&authkey=!ADUDUX-LfjK3mks&ithint=folder,pdf

 

[MessiahMushroom]

I did try the "Print View" option on your site, and then printing that and saving as a PDF, but the formatting came out all wonky.

Apparently it's some bug. Despite this, it still looks better then anything I could make with indesign or photoshop since I don't actually have those programs. Probably will have to take screen shots and piece them together lol.

 

[Quickleaf]

Oh and, I think a character class/kit conversion document would be the most helpful, yes. An adventure (with a template for future adventures) would be super too. I'd like to see a Zakharan bestiary and an item / equipment overhaul too.

Hmm, there is an AQ Classes and Backgrounds product on DM's Guild put out by Brent "Vad" Rodgers, but I really can't recommend it. True, it's free, but there's really not much there besides reiterating what the original Arabian Adventures book said. So I agree a real conversion guide would be good.

I think it was [MENTION=8767]Hodag[/MENTION] who did prodigious work converting AQ monsters to 4th edition. We could definitely compile some kind of bestiary, though finding usable images would be tricky.

I've been brainstorming an adventure based in the World Pillar Mountains (aka Yehimal Mtns.) that involves facing off against the Yak-men who've grown unusually active. I'm intending it to be a sort of Standard Forgotten Realms / Kara-Tur / Al-Qadim crossover, with touches borrowed from The Horde supplement. Probably for the 5th-7th level range. Something that could introduce Zakhara to FR players unfamiliar with Al-Qadim, yet could also stand on its own legs as a supplement for an area at the edge of the map that never was much explored in past supplements.

I did stumble across a fantastic artist on Deviant Art -- http://tea-for-jbass.deviantart.com/art/Teadle-202-Illuminated-Roses-550212354 -- who I would hire to do a commission in a heartbeat for an Al-Qadim product.

I forget where I found this but it's an awesome 3.5 resource that wouldn't need much work to convert:

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?res...58&authkey=!ACcu3ZO-3CaTzl8&ithint=folder,pdf

Does that link work?

Yep, it works for me. Someone put a fantastic amount of work into that conversion; wish they had attribution somewhere among those files!