Alienist summon boost?

[Mortarion]

Would it be unbalanced to give an alienist the ability to summon anything from the summon monster spells as a pseudonatural creature. Which means that he can for example summon an pseudonatural water elemental.

If this is unbalanced, what could be done to balance the Alienist? Maybe remove some other class features but in that case, which ones?

 

[frankthedm]

Would it be unbalanced to give an alienist the ability to summon anything from the summon monster spells as a pseudonatural creature. Which means that he can for example summon an pseudonatural water elemental.

Yes, it would be unbalanced

If this is unbalanced, what could be done to balance the Alienist? Maybe remove some other class features but in that case, which ones?

Maybe one or two of those "+1 spellcasting level" Or remake the alienst summon monster list so the non templated, now psudonatural outsiders are summonable at a higher level.

outsider BAB + true strike is easily breakable, the outsiders Alienst can call have to be balanced against that.

 

[Mortarion]

Maybe change all outsiders up one or more steps on the ladder for example from Summon monster III to IV, or maybe forbid the Alienist from summoning outsiders at all.

Or maybe make it inte a feat, Improved Alien summoning. It would require one to already be able to summon pseudonatural creatures. It would enable the caster to summon any non-outsider from the list as a pseudonatural creature.

Which would be best?

 

[shilsen]

Would it be unbalanced to give an alienist the ability to summon anything from the summon monster spells as a pseudonatural creature. Which means that he can for example summon an pseudonatural water elemental.

Absolutely.

If this is unbalanced, what could be done to balance the Alienist? Maybe remove some other class features but in that case, which ones?

Just allow the Alienist to continue to summon creatures that aren't Celestial/Fiendish. That lets the PrC retain the versatility of the summon spells while being able to summon the pseudonatural varieties for combat. That's what I've done with the alienist in my game and it works fine.

 

[frankthedm]

Maybe change all outsiders up one or more steps on the ladder for example from Summon monster III to IV

case by case basis is neeed to ensure balance

maybe forbid the Alienist from summoning outsiders at all.

Complete Arcane did that to alienists

It would enable the caster to summon any non-outsider from the list as a pseudonatural creature.

Thats thier class ability already, they swap out feindish or celestial for Psudo. Now making it a feat to summon the normally non templated outsidersas psudo is quite strong.

 

[Mortarion]

case by case basis is neeed to ensure balance

Complete Arcane did that to alienists

Thats thier class ability already, they swap out feindish or celestial for Psudo. Now making it a feat to summon the normally non templated outsidersas psudo is quite strong.

It is true that this is what an Alienist does. What i whas thinking was allowing them to summon normally non templated non outsiders like elementals, stirges and other things on the list as pseudonatural, maybe with a feat. So no pseudo outsiders, outsiders are strong enough already.

 

[ExMachina]

I would reccommend allowing a different more 'thematic' form of summons in place of the non templated creatures. Instead of demons, devils, etc; use some of the aberrant creatures which fit the bill, and don't apply the pseudonatural template to them.


E.g. Gibbering mouthers come to mind, allow them at SM5 or 6, these make a nice shoggoth.
Yurians at SM 2 or 3, they make for a nice Mi-go type.
Keep in the chaos beast from SMVI, makes perfect sense
Carrion crawlers definitely have a nice look to them


Look through the books, there are lots of neutral (in keeping with the pseudonatural themed alignment) abberrations out there. In fact it is one of my pet peeves with the Alienist class that they supposedly deal with these Cyclopean minds from beyond time and space, but al the creatures they can summon have a 3 int.

 

[Rackhir]

Personally, I'm really not convinced that adding the pseudonatural template to a non-templated creature represents even a mild increase in power. It basically gives you 3 things, the true strike (only once), DR (negated by magic weapons) and some resistances (acid I'm sure, can't remember if there are any others).

The True strike is nice, but given that it's only for one attack it doesn't really make much of a difference, it just means that you are pretty much guarenteed at least one attack will hit.

The DR is almost always going to be overcome since magic weapons are going to be widely available at 6th level or the creature will already have a greater DR. DR/Magic also rapidly becomes completely useless as level increases due to pretty much everything having the ability to by pass the DR at higher levels.

As for the last there just aren't that many creatures or spells with acid attacks.

The pseudonatural creatures can get an ac boost of 1 by remaining in their pseudonatural form, but given the generally low ACs this is essentially irrelevent and becomes increasingly so as levels increase.

 

[Mortarion]

I think I will do this: The Alienist will get the abilities to summon everything non outsider as a pseudo and maybe add a couple of aberrations of roughly the same Cr as the rest of the monsters to the list as well. While this is a opwer boost to the alienist it is quite fitting as the Alienist is a summoner class IMHO and the "boost" is not that big if you remove all outsiders from the list (which i intend to do).

Anyway I love the idea of Alienist summoning aberrations so could someone please give me some tips or examples of what kind of aberrations that could fit the list (both thematically and more importantly power-wise)?

Example: Gibbering mouther at SM IV, Yurian at SM II and Chaos beats at SM VI but what to fill in the other lists. i would be really nice to have at least one aberration (at least) at each spell level of the spell.

I would be thankfull for any advice.

 

[ExMachina]

Anyway I love the idea of Alienist summoning aberrations so could someone please give me some tips or examples of what kind of aberrations that could fit the list (both thematically and more importantly power-wise)?

These are just some examples by CR rating, some of the ones my GM has allowed for my Alienist, but I'm only up to the CR IVs. Not being a Lovecraft fan, he allowed me to do the research and submit for approval... I use the Darkmantle, Yurian, Grick and Carrion Crawler; but the Mouther and Chaos beast are there for V and VI.

SM I Darkmantle (maybe SM II, its a little too tough for SM I, but not by much) nice and tentacly. I prefer tostick to the neutral of the pseudo template, however, the more intelligent critters could be evil.

SM II Yurian, Choker

SM III - IV Grell (evil though), Carrion Crawler, Grick, Fihyr (Evil again)

SM V Gibbering Mouther

SM VI Chaos Beast

SM VII Chuul (an excellent cthulhoid monster, but again not neutral)

SM VIII - IX not sure here yet, need to research a bit more