D&D 4E Alignment, 4e, you, and your paladins.

[VannATLC]

Oh, it is quite possible, but distasteful to some people. The chaotic good person wants the masses to rise up and slay their wicked oppressors and tear down the societal structures that allowed for them to come into power in the first place. But since that will get too many good people killed, CG heroes will generally take matters into their own hands, plunging blades into sleeping tyrants, arranging accidents for the wicked and generally using underhanded methods to make the world a better place.

Which fundamentally disagrees with my notions of good.

Doing that, you're chaotic neutral. Maybe chaotic stupid, as well, given the engines of tyranny will blame the masses.

*shrug* I have immense problems with DND's objective ideas of a good-evil axis. On top of that, what level of foresight is somebody supposed to have? Does the *actually crazy* protaganist of the original Postal, who believes he is doing the *right and good* thing, in killing cops, then a school full of children, good, because he things he is?

If not.. does that apply to he person who does good things that end badly, because he didn't think them through?

Liberating all those slaves after killing all the masters, who knew how to operate the machinery, to give food and light and power to the slaves?

IMO, to be actually good requires wisdom, forethought AND intelligence. Most of those simply to do not work well with Chaos.

 

[Derren]

IMO, to be actually good requires wisdom, forethought AND intelligence. Most of those simply to do not work well with Chaos.

And why not? Intelligence has nothing to do with being rebellious or not.

 

[VannATLC]

And why not? Intelligence has nothing to do with being rebellious or not.

It has everything to do with planning and forethought, though.

 

[The Eternal GM]

Uh, I like law and chaos... No option for that?

 

[WhatGravitas]

It has everything to do with planning and forethought, though.

Umh... why? A highly intelligent person - with some quick thinking - doesn't require much planning and/or forethought - improvisation, man!

It's perhaps not prudent... but that's something else.

Cheers, LT.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Alignments: yes

Detect alignment spells as in 3.5: no

A ritual which can reveal the alignment of an aware target: ok... but it should be considered very very rude...

 

[VannATLC]

Umh... why? A highly intelligent person - with some quick thinking - doesn't require much planning and/or forethought - improvisation, man!

It's perhaps not prudent... but that's something else.

Cheers, LT.

Well, no, its not something else. But that gets bogged down in an intelligence discussion.

 

[WhatGravitas]

Well, no, its not something else. But that gets bogged down in an intelligence discussion.

I think you're probably confusing the meaning of "Intelligence" with a common use of the adjective "intelligent":

in·tel·li·gence –noun
1. capacity for learning, reasoning, understanding, and similar forms of mental activity; aptitude in grasping truths, relationships, facts, meanings, etc.
2. manifestation of a high mental capacity: He writes with intelligence and wit.
3. the faculty of understanding.
4. knowledge of an event, circumstance, etc., received or imparted; news; information.
5. the gathering or distribution of information, esp. secret information.
6. Government.
a. information about an enemy or a potential enemy.
b. the evaluated conclusions drawn from such information.
c. an organization or agency engaged in gathering such information: military intelligence; naval intelligence.
7. interchange of information: They have been maintaining intelligence with foreign agents for years.
8. Christian Science. a fundamental attribute of God, or infinite Mind.
9. (often initial capital letter) an intelligent being or spirit, esp. an incorporeal one, as an angel.

That's basically just mental ability and/or ability to understand, reason and so on - as in "Artificial Intelligence".

Whereas "intelligent" can be used to describe forethought:

in·tel·li·gent –adjective
1. having good understanding or a high mental capacity; quick to comprehend, as persons or animals: an intelligent student.
2. displaying or characterized by quickness of understanding, sound thought, or good judgment: an intelligent reply.
3. having the faculty of reasoning and understanding; possessing intelligence: intelligent beings in outer space.
4. Computers. pertaining to the ability to do data processing locally; smart: An intelligent terminal can edit input before transmission to a host computer. Compare dumb (def. 8).
5. Archaic. having understanding or knowledge (usually fol. by of).

Well, that can be used to say something is well-thought out, a sound opinion, or reasonable.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

one of the age-old problems with law vs chaos in D&D seems to me that there are different views on what constitutes "lawful" behaviour. Does a personal code of honor means you're lawful, even if you steal from the rich (possibly giving it to the poor or only yourself), and ignore the law of the country/city you live in?
Are you chaotic if you want to bring down the current government to institute your own?

I am not convinced by the alignment spectrum implied by lawful good - good - unaligned - evil - chaotic evil.

Chaos in this spectrum means being focused on destroying order, no matter what kind of order.
Law means building an order.
A evil character is more likely to destroy or circumvent an order for your own, selfish desires. If existing law stands in your way, you will ignore it. You might (being not chaotic evil) willing to build your own order, provided it benefits your selfish goals.
Good people might help to establish some kind of order or organization, so that everyone can benefit from it. They might bring down an existing "evil" order, and will support a good one.
Lawful Good characters will always aim for an orderly system that is beneficial for everyone.

 

[CleverNickName]

I've never had an argument at my table over alignment, in many years of gaming. So I would file this under "not broken, don't fix."