Andrew D. Gable
First Post
Dark Jezter said:
I'm reading these books right now (actually JUST finished Stone of Tears), and I think Richard's more of a Lawful Neutral.
Alignment examples of fictional characters.
- Thread starter Dark Jezter
- Start date
I'm reading these books right now (actually JUST finished Stone of Tears), and I think Richard's more of a Lawful Neutral.
Andrew D. Gable
First Post
Maraxle said:
Ack! How dare you put Dave in the same class as Bizkit! Just kiddin, to each his own.
Nirvana does rock, though.
Teflon Billy
Explorer
For you David Gemmel Fans.
LG: Serbitar of The Thirty
NG: Druss the Legend, Orrin
CG: Tenaka Khan, Regnak (Rek), Ulric
LN: Hogun,
TN: Decado, Bowman
CN: Sieben the Bard
LE: The Waylander
NE: Karnak One-Eye
CE: The Joinings
LG: Serbitar of The Thirty
NG: Druss the Legend, Orrin
CG: Tenaka Khan, Regnak (Rek), Ulric
LN: Hogun,
TN: Decado, Bowman
CN: Sieben the Bard
LE: The Waylander
NE: Karnak One-Eye
CE: The Joinings
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Cedric
First Post
Political Examples
Ok...I'll give my own twisted view of this...
Lawful Good - Harry S. Truman
Neutral Good - Franklin D. Roosevelt
Chaotic Good - Theodore Roosevelt
Lawful Neutral - J. Edgar Hoover
Neutral - Calvin Coolidge
Chaotic Neutral - Lyndon B. Johnson
Lawful Evil - Mao Tse Tung
Neutral Evil - Manuel Noriega
Chaotic Evil - Immelda Marcos (anyone with that many shoes, is chaotic...and she was definately evil!)
Cedric
Ok...I'll give my own twisted view of this...
Lawful Good - Harry S. Truman
Neutral Good - Franklin D. Roosevelt
Chaotic Good - Theodore Roosevelt
Lawful Neutral - J. Edgar Hoover
Neutral - Calvin Coolidge
Chaotic Neutral - Lyndon B. Johnson
Lawful Evil - Mao Tse Tung
Neutral Evil - Manuel Noriega
Chaotic Evil - Immelda Marcos (anyone with that many shoes, is chaotic...and she was definately evil!)
Cedric
Re: Political Examples
Okay, two things--first reverse Mao and Immelda. Immelda is a control freak with a foot fetish, and Mao was a lunatic with a thing for "perpetual revolution"...
Secondly... You know, I'm probably going to get a lot of criticism for this, but considering his extensive ties with and covering for the Mafia, especially the latest revealed ones, his tendency to indulge in blackmail, and his occasionally erratic behavior, Hoover might be better qualified as Lawful Evil...
*Sigh* I knew it was a bad sign when the historical figures showed up, I just knew it...
Cedric said:
Okay, two things--first reverse Mao and Immelda. Immelda is a control freak with a foot fetish, and Mao was a lunatic with a thing for "perpetual revolution"...
Secondly... You know, I'm probably going to get a lot of criticism for this, but considering his extensive ties with and covering for the Mafia, especially the latest revealed ones, his tendency to indulge in blackmail, and his occasionally erratic behavior, Hoover might be better qualified as Lawful Evil...
*Sigh* I knew it was a bad sign when the historical figures showed up, I just knew it...
Last edited:
Dagger75
Epic Commoner
My take on aligment. Mine is correct the rest are all wrong 
. (That should stop the moral/ethic debate flame war that will start soon)
LG - Superman
NG - The Federation from Star Trek
CG- The Flash, The Rebels from Star Wars
N- The Vorlons, The Minbari
LN- Judge Dredd
CN- Batman
LE- The Empire, Lex Luther
NE- The Hutts
CE- The Joker
. (That should stop the moral/ethic debate flame war that will start soon)LG - Superman
NG - The Federation from Star Trek
CG- The Flash, The Rebels from Star Wars
N- The Vorlons, The Minbari
LN- Judge Dredd
CN- Batman
LE- The Empire, Lex Luther
NE- The Hutts
CE- The Joker
Celebrim
Legend
"Lawful Good - Harry S. Truman
Neutral Good - Franklin D. Roosevelt
Chaotic Good - Theodore Roosevelt
Lawful Neutral - J. Edgar Hoover
Neutral - Calvin Coolidge
Chaotic Neutral - Lyndon B. Johnson
Lawful Evil - Mao Tse Tung
Neutral Evil - Manuel Noriega
Chaotic Evil - Immelda Marcos"
I think this shows considerable confusion between history, and pop history.
J. Edgar Hoover was anything but lawful. You think just because he was the head of a law enforcement agency that this makes him lawful? Consider his ties to criminal elements, his willingness to flaunt the laws he supposedly upheld, his deviant private life, his paranoia, and his own self serving ego (using the agency to protect himself from investigation) before throwing him in the lawful's just because he headed a law enforcement agency. I vote for JEH as one of the most evil US figures in our history, and probably CE.
On the other hand, you have Lyndon B. Johnson as a chaotic nuetral, and I'm not sure where you get that. LBJ was the consumate insider politician, and was clearly serving what he believed was the interests of the state using the rules of the state in order to achieve what he thought would be a better state. I'd vote for LE.
But I do agree that Immelda was CE. Just because she was a control freak doesn't mean that she's not CE. Clearly she was more interested in enriching herself than in a misguided effort to enlarge the position and influence of the Philipines on the world state by the ruthless application of power.
I can see both arguements for Mao being CE and LE, so I'm going to go down the middle as NE. Certainly, this seems fitting as the man who is most directly responsible for the single largest incidence of unnecessary deaths in history - the 'cultural revolution' and the resulting mass starvation that followed.
Manuel Noriega was probably just another petty tin horn dictator - CE.
I'm hesitant to choose an alignment for Teddy. He's a very complex figure. While it would be nice to label him as 'good' as our high school history texts do, the man had some serious flaws for all his idealism and energy. He could be ruthless, ambitious, proud, violent, and dishonorable at times. He was not a man of peace, nor was his martial spirit reserved only for righting injustices (except in the sense that he seemed to think it unjust when he could not have what he wanted). Certainly what he did to the Columbians cannot be dismissed out of hand. I'd like to say that he was motivated strongly by a desire to enlarge the power of the US, but he does not appear to be anything like a man of convention despite his patriotism. On closer examination he was more likely motivated by the desire to achieve lasting fame and recognition for himself by enlarging the power of the US - and his patriotism was how he justified this to himself. His attempt to be the first president to run for more than two terms in office is I think telling. I'd certainly be willing to entertain votes for almost any alignment, depending on how important you find individual traits to be relative to other ones, but I'm going to vote CN.
Maraxle: I'd really like to here your explanation of 'The Pixies' being lawful, and 'Creed' being chaotic. And I'm inclined to think that 'The Beastie Boys' and 'Guns N' Roses' would be offended to be labeled less than chaotic. And do realize just how bad it is for his marketing to not label Rob evil? He tries so hard to keep up appearances, dude, give him a break.
Neutral Good - Franklin D. Roosevelt
Chaotic Good - Theodore Roosevelt
Lawful Neutral - J. Edgar Hoover
Neutral - Calvin Coolidge
Chaotic Neutral - Lyndon B. Johnson
Lawful Evil - Mao Tse Tung
Neutral Evil - Manuel Noriega
Chaotic Evil - Immelda Marcos"
I think this shows considerable confusion between history, and pop history.
J. Edgar Hoover was anything but lawful. You think just because he was the head of a law enforcement agency that this makes him lawful? Consider his ties to criminal elements, his willingness to flaunt the laws he supposedly upheld, his deviant private life, his paranoia, and his own self serving ego (using the agency to protect himself from investigation) before throwing him in the lawful's just because he headed a law enforcement agency. I vote for JEH as one of the most evil US figures in our history, and probably CE.
On the other hand, you have Lyndon B. Johnson as a chaotic nuetral, and I'm not sure where you get that. LBJ was the consumate insider politician, and was clearly serving what he believed was the interests of the state using the rules of the state in order to achieve what he thought would be a better state. I'd vote for LE.
But I do agree that Immelda was CE. Just because she was a control freak doesn't mean that she's not CE. Clearly she was more interested in enriching herself than in a misguided effort to enlarge the position and influence of the Philipines on the world state by the ruthless application of power.
I can see both arguements for Mao being CE and LE, so I'm going to go down the middle as NE. Certainly, this seems fitting as the man who is most directly responsible for the single largest incidence of unnecessary deaths in history - the 'cultural revolution' and the resulting mass starvation that followed.
Manuel Noriega was probably just another petty tin horn dictator - CE.
I'm hesitant to choose an alignment for Teddy. He's a very complex figure. While it would be nice to label him as 'good' as our high school history texts do, the man had some serious flaws for all his idealism and energy. He could be ruthless, ambitious, proud, violent, and dishonorable at times. He was not a man of peace, nor was his martial spirit reserved only for righting injustices (except in the sense that he seemed to think it unjust when he could not have what he wanted). Certainly what he did to the Columbians cannot be dismissed out of hand. I'd like to say that he was motivated strongly by a desire to enlarge the power of the US, but he does not appear to be anything like a man of convention despite his patriotism. On closer examination he was more likely motivated by the desire to achieve lasting fame and recognition for himself by enlarging the power of the US - and his patriotism was how he justified this to himself. His attempt to be the first president to run for more than two terms in office is I think telling. I'd certainly be willing to entertain votes for almost any alignment, depending on how important you find individual traits to be relative to other ones, but I'm going to vote CN.
Maraxle: I'd really like to here your explanation of 'The Pixies' being lawful, and 'Creed' being chaotic. And I'm inclined to think that 'The Beastie Boys' and 'Guns N' Roses' would be offended to be labeled less than chaotic. And do realize just how bad it is for his marketing to not label Rob evil? He tries so hard to keep up appearances, dude, give him a break.
DonAdam
Explorer
First a concern: there's lawful as a political ideology then lawful as in disciplined. I'm assuming political/institutional ideology, as discipline comes with most great figures to begin with.
Here's a go:
Lawful good: All the Jedi but Qui-Gonn and Luke. They were the lawkeepers and negotiators in the Old Republic, often working closely with the Judiciary Department. Captain America, Superman, King Arthur for sure. Wong Fei Hon, from Once Upon a Time in China and The Iron Monkey, he's very reluctant to lead the revolution. Orthodox Catholicism/Eastern Orthodox would tend to fall under here as well, as would conservative Judaism with it's fierce (and IMO admirable) adherance to tradition. Maximus from Gladiator.
Neutral Good: Luke in ROTJ, Qui Gonn, Lando Calrissian in ROTJ. Batman is complex, so there's some ambiguity; he will work with the cops when possible, but if not he doesn't have problems whooping some booty vigilante style, and he'll run from the cops if they try to catch him. Same for Spider Man. Protestant Christianity, with it's distrust of large hierarchy, might come here, but Protestant Christianity is so broad that it's difficult to pin down one ideology.
Chaotic Good: Robin Hood, Han Solo in ROTJ, the Iron Monkey. Wolverine for sure. Libertarians in general. The good guys in the Matrix.
Lawful Neutral: Definitely Jevere from Les Miserables. Most samurai with lords. Probably large numbers of Stormtroopers. Anakin in AOTC. USAgent perhaps? The captain of the guard in Iron Monkey.
True Neutral: Lando in ESB. Most supporting characters in crime/mob movies- they won't do evil things, but they don't have a problem being associated with them. Karla in Lodoss. Spawn.
Chaotic Neutral: Han in ANH. The Pills in Akira. Conan the Barbarian. Fey Valentine in Cowboy Bebop. The Incredible Hulk, the Punisher, Casey Jones. The crazy Irishman in Braveheart. Nietzche's philosophy.
Lawful Evil: Vader, Palpatine, Doctor Doom. The Soviet Union's leadership. Lex Luthor. Saitou in Kenshin, Megatron.
Neutral Evil: Darth Maul possibly, if he was well enough developed. Jabba the Hutt. HHH in heel mode. Most bad guys in crime movies.
Chaotic Evil: Sabertooth, Tetsuo in Akira, the Kurgan from Highlander, the Joker, Mumm-ra, Vicious from Cowboy Bebop.
Here's a go:
Lawful good: All the Jedi but Qui-Gonn and Luke. They were the lawkeepers and negotiators in the Old Republic, often working closely with the Judiciary Department. Captain America, Superman, King Arthur for sure. Wong Fei Hon, from Once Upon a Time in China and The Iron Monkey, he's very reluctant to lead the revolution. Orthodox Catholicism/Eastern Orthodox would tend to fall under here as well, as would conservative Judaism with it's fierce (and IMO admirable) adherance to tradition. Maximus from Gladiator.
Neutral Good: Luke in ROTJ, Qui Gonn, Lando Calrissian in ROTJ. Batman is complex, so there's some ambiguity; he will work with the cops when possible, but if not he doesn't have problems whooping some booty vigilante style, and he'll run from the cops if they try to catch him. Same for Spider Man. Protestant Christianity, with it's distrust of large hierarchy, might come here, but Protestant Christianity is so broad that it's difficult to pin down one ideology.
Chaotic Good: Robin Hood, Han Solo in ROTJ, the Iron Monkey. Wolverine for sure. Libertarians in general. The good guys in the Matrix.
Lawful Neutral: Definitely Jevere from Les Miserables. Most samurai with lords. Probably large numbers of Stormtroopers. Anakin in AOTC. USAgent perhaps? The captain of the guard in Iron Monkey.
True Neutral: Lando in ESB. Most supporting characters in crime/mob movies- they won't do evil things, but they don't have a problem being associated with them. Karla in Lodoss. Spawn.
Chaotic Neutral: Han in ANH. The Pills in Akira. Conan the Barbarian. Fey Valentine in Cowboy Bebop. The Incredible Hulk, the Punisher, Casey Jones. The crazy Irishman in Braveheart. Nietzche's philosophy.
Lawful Evil: Vader, Palpatine, Doctor Doom. The Soviet Union's leadership. Lex Luthor. Saitou in Kenshin, Megatron.
Neutral Evil: Darth Maul possibly, if he was well enough developed. Jabba the Hutt. HHH in heel mode. Most bad guys in crime movies.
Chaotic Evil: Sabertooth, Tetsuo in Akira, the Kurgan from Highlander, the Joker, Mumm-ra, Vicious from Cowboy Bebop.
Deedlit
First Post
I'd like to add my take on the Beast Wars cast
LG:Rhinox, Silverbolt
NG:Optimus Primal, Air Razor, Tigerhawk
CG:Cheetor, Dinobot
LN:Inferno
N:Tigetron, The Vok
CN:Waspinator, Rattrap, 3rd season Black Arachnia
LE:Tripredacus council, Ravage, Scorponok
NE:Megatron, Quickstrike, TM2 Dinobot pre-nemesis
CE:Terrorsaur, Starscream, Tarantulas, Depth Charge(I know most would pin him otherwise, but he would do anything to kill Rampage), First and second season Black Arachnia.
LG:Rhinox, Silverbolt
NG:Optimus Primal, Air Razor, Tigerhawk
CG:Cheetor, Dinobot
LN:Inferno
N:Tigetron, The Vok
CN:Waspinator, Rattrap, 3rd season Black Arachnia
LE:Tripredacus council, Ravage, Scorponok
NE:Megatron, Quickstrike, TM2 Dinobot pre-nemesis
CE:Terrorsaur, Starscream, Tarantulas, Depth Charge(I know most would pin him otherwise, but he would do anything to kill Rampage), First and second season Black Arachnia.
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