All Aboard the Figher Express

ZenBear

Villager
One of my players decided to pull a questionable move. He's playing a high STR Fighter, so he figured it would be perfectly reasonable to be able to pick up his medium sized ally as an object interaction and carry him 30 ft. before making his attack. I allowed it at the time because I wasn't sure if it was against the rules and he's an experienced DM, but it seemed pretty fishy and open to abuse. How would you rule this? Is he pulling some shenanigans, or is this kosher?
 

Saelorn

Adventurer
A free object interaction is supposed to be something that doesn't require much effort, like drawing a weapon or opening a door. Picking up a medium-sized creature would be more like a grapple attempt.

In practice, I wouldn't expect this to be abused much, since it would require you to have two empty hands and spend your free object interaction for the round - you can't attack after that, because you don't have a weapon. Still, for the sake of fairness, I would rule that picking someone up counts as your action for the round; that way, we don't have to worry about the monk exploiting this later on, and having to rule differently for them.
 

ZenBear

Villager
it would require you to have two empty hands and spend your free object interaction for the round - you can't attack after that, because you don't have a weapon.
He used one hand and still made his attack with a greatsword.

I think you're right that it ought to be a grapple, which for Fighters is fine since they get Extra Attack so it isn't completely burning their action.
 
You have a choice of rules to use (or not):

Carrying capacity, it's 15 lb/STR, if the fighter's gear & the other character & his gear exceed that, he's pushding/dragging and his move drops to 5' - otherwise fine, this is the simple default for carrying stuff.

Encumbrance ("Variant"): Up to 5lb/STR he's fine, but it's unlikely a medium ally is under 100lb, which'd be the limit for 20 STR. Up to twice that, he loses 10' of movement, over twice that he loses 20' of movement and gets disadvantage on a bunch of stuff.

Moving a Grapple - you can probably dispense with the checks for a willing ally, but moving a grapple is at 1/2 speed.

All the above presumably require at least a free hand. You could require an action or just an attack, for the grapple (or an action for any of 'em, really, it's totally up to you).

Another thing you might go with, not a rule at all, but you're free to do what you like: Allow the ally he 'grabs' to spend his Reaction to go with him - instead of picking him up, you're just pulling him along, willingly. On his turn, that ally has already used it's move.


Whatever you do, decide quick, and narrate success/failure with confidence and flair!

:)
 

ccs

39th lv DM
Things like that I rule on a case by case basis.

I mean, I can picture The Rock grabbing someone, hauling them along, & punching a bad guy.... (in fact I bet I'll see it - or something more ridiculous - in a few weeks when Hobbs & Shaw hits the theatre. :)

So maybe I'd call for a grapple or str check to lift/haul the other PCs. Or maybe an athletics check to determine how far they get. Maybe disadvantage on the attack? I don't know. Like I said, I'd rule it on a case by case basis depending upon the scene.
 
One of my players decided to pull a questionable move. He's playing a high STR Fighter, so he figured it would be perfectly reasonable to be able to pick up his medium sized ally as an object interaction and carry him 30 ft. before making his attack. I allowed it at the time because I wasn't sure if it was against the rules and he's an experienced DM, but it seemed pretty fishy and open to abuse. How would you rule this? Is he pulling some shenanigans, or is this kosher?
The basic manuever seems legit by rule. *** actually the free object part isn't, but he could use an attack to make the grapple then carry/drag. The 30ft of movement was to far. Should have been 1/2 that unless he also managed to dash in there somewhere.

Small caveat: I don't think it's flat out picking the ally up so much as dragging them with him. The fighter could do the same with an enemy as well provided they let go of said enemy before they attack.
 
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Things like that I rule on a case by case basis.

I mean, I can picture The Rock grabbing someone, hauling them along, & punching a bad guy.... (in fact I bet I'll see it - or something more ridiculous - in a few weeks when Hobbs & Shaw hits the theatre. :)

So maybe I'd call for a grapple or str check to lift/haul the other PCs. Or maybe an athletics check to determine how far they get. Maybe disadvantage on the attack? I don't know. Like I said, I'd rule it on a case by case basis depending upon the scene.
Well, I guess by rule every PC is the rock as they all can grapple a willing ally
 
You have a choice of rules to use (or not):

Carrying capacity, it's 15 lb/STR, if the fighter's gear & the other character & his gear exceed that, he's pushding/dragging and his move drops to 5' - otherwise fine, this is the simple default for carrying stuff.

Encumbrance ("Variant"): Up to 5lb/STR he's fine, but it's unlikely a medium ally is under 100lb, which'd be the limit for 20 STR. Up to twice that, he loses 10' of movement, over twice that he loses 20' of movement and gets disadvantage on a bunch of stuff.

Moving a Grapple - you can probably dispense with the checks for a willing ally, but moving a grapple is at 1/2 speed.

All the above presumably require at least a free hand. You could require an action or just an attack, for the grapple (or an action for any of 'em, really, it's totally up to you).

Another thing you might go with, not a rule at all, but you're free to do what you like: Allow the ally he 'grabs' to spend his Reaction to go with him - instead of picking him up, you're just pulling him along, willingly. On his turn, that ally has already used it's move.


Whatever you do, decide quick, and narrate success/failure with confidence and flair!

:)
It's a bit different dragging an NPC or PC along with you and walking around with 100+ lbs of gear.
 
On the whole, if I didn't want to use encumberance I would allow this if the character being picked up and carried was small, or the character doing the carrying had the "Powerful Build" racial ability. Otherwise I would require an action.
 

ad_hoc

Adventurer
As the PC is willing (and if they aren't then the fighter shouldn't be doing it) I don't think an ability check should be called for.

I do think the targeted PC's reaction should be used. Reactions are designed just for these sorts of cases, interacting with things not on your own turn.

Free hand required, half movement, special grapple attack action, and targeted PC's reaction seems fine to me.

I think requiring the grapple attack action to be used is important as this is a way to avoid OAs. There should be an action used in there somewhere.

I think it is cinematic for the strong fighter to lift their friend to safety.
 

5ekyu

Adventurer
In general, keep in mind that the object interactions rules specifically call out the GM requiring actions for these if they represent obstacles or complex tasks. Grabbing and dragging a moving and defending active individual should not be imo treated as a free object interaction. I would require a grapple check, willing ally so advantage and then apply the grapple move and encumbrance rules as is.
 

DEFCON 1

Legend
I also probably would have applied the "half-speed" movement penalty to carrying an ally (a la moving a grappled person). After all... whenever a player had ever tried lifting and moving/dragging an unconscious ally I always applied the have-movement as a matter of course, so there's no reason to think doing the same to an upright conscious ally should be any different.

At this point, it sounds like they are just trying to get PCs further along than they normally would. If you don't nip it in the bud you could have a situation where one PC lifts and carries an ally 30' and then attacks/casts, then on the ally's turn picking up the first PC and moving 30' again before attacking/casting. So by the end of the round both PCs have moved double their speed and attacked.

If you're going to allow that, you might as well just give every PC the ability to Dash with a bonus action. (See the [5E] Double Dash thread for details.)
 

ZenBear

Villager
So I have decided that picking up an ally to carry them around costs one attack to grapple, no roll required and no reduction of movement if the target is willing. Because the target is willingly being moved however, it still provokes an attack of opportunity.

The issue with allowing this maneuver as a free object interaction, or even as a bonus action, is that players will be able to abuse this in a thoroughly absurd way by playing leapfrog every round. Imagine two PCs are being chased by a guard. The guard Dashes 60 feet on its turn, then Player 1 picks up his buddy as a free action and Dashes 60 feet. Player 2 now picks up Player 1 and Dashes an additional 60 feet, effectively doubling their movement speed and making it impossible for the guard to catch up. Now make the PCs Rogues with Cunning Action... You see my point?

With my houserule, a Fighter can still make attacks after the carry provided they have Extra Attacks, but you have to take the Attack Action so you can’t Dash on the first turn carrying someone unless you have Cunning Action, Expeditious Retreat, or Action Surge.
 
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Flamestrike

Explorer
One of my players decided to pull a questionable move. He's playing a high STR Fighter, so he figured it would be perfectly reasonable to be able to pick up his medium sized ally as an object interaction and carry him 30 ft. before making his attack. I allowed it at the time because I wasn't sure if it was against the rules and he's an experienced DM, but it seemed pretty fishy and open to abuse. How would you rule this? Is he pulling some shenanigans, or is this kosher?
'Medium sized creature' is not an 'object' and picking someone up, and moving them 30' certainly isnt incidental to that movement.

For mine, it's a Grapple check (likely unopposed seeing as he is your ally) as part of the Attack action, followed by 1/2 movement (as normal for being grappled) and then you can release them (as normal for grappling) and continue with the rest of your attacks (if you so desire).

If your target doesnt resist, then it's an Attack action (auto grapple), interrupted by a half move (during which both you and he are grappled) as you drag them along, at the end of which you can release them, and then make any additional attacks allowed due to Extra attack.

Its logically consistent.
 

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