All About Grappling (Part Four)
- Thread starter Egres
- Start date
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Egres said:
My question to you: In this case, do you have to randomly determine which foe your grab attack strikes?
If your answer is 'No', then Skip's statement is accurate.
-Hyp.
Taren Seeker
First Post
It seems that when Skip initially wrote this article he was working with the unerrata'd first article. You know, kind of like he did when they wrote 3.5 
Anyways, they were probably written a while ago. They corrected the first but didn't modify the wording on the second.
Anyways, they were probably written a while ago. They corrected the first but didn't modify the wording on the second.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
JimAde said:
I think if you infer that, that's your error, rather than his.
His statement is accurate; if you choose to infer an inaccurate conclusion from that accurate statement, it's not his responsibility.
-Hyp.
In the habbit.
I download each article as soon as they come out. In this instance I did the same with part one, the day it came out was the day I downloaded it.
here is the quote:
"
You share your foe's space when you're grappling. If you and your foe are different sizes, use the larger
of the two space entries. Any attack that can reach the shared space can hit you. You don't get cover
from a foe you're grappling, but any ranged attack aimed into your shared space has an equal chance to
strike you or the creature you're grappling. Roll randomly to determine which creature a ranged attack
strikes (see note 3 on Table 8-6 in the Player's Handbook). If you use a weapon against a foe you're
grappling (see Part Two), you don't have to roll to determine the target you actually attack.
"
I download each article as soon as they come out. In this instance I did the same with part one, the day it came out was the day I downloaded it.
here is the quote:
"
You share your foe's space when you're grappling. If you and your foe are different sizes, use the larger
of the two space entries. Any attack that can reach the shared space can hit you. You don't get cover
from a foe you're grappling, but any ranged attack aimed into your shared space has an equal chance to
strike you or the creature you're grappling. Roll randomly to determine which creature a ranged attack
strikes (see note 3 on Table 8-6 in the Player's Handbook). If you use a weapon against a foe you're
grappling (see Part Two), you don't have to roll to determine the target you actually attack.
"
Now I see what you are referring to.
It says in part IV "If multiple opponents are involved in the grapple, you pick one to make the opposed grapple check against. In
this case, you don't have to randomly determine which foe your grab attack strikes (see Part One). If that seems
overly generous to you, you can require a full-round action to choose your target. As part of that action, you
make the grab and the ensuing opposed grapple check to try and establish a hold."
Since you only roll randomly for a ranged attack, the fact that it says you don't need to roll randomly for choosing an opponent to make an opposed grapple check is redundant and assumes that you indeed need to during other times during a grapple which isn't the case (and only the case when attacking with ranged weapons).
It says in part IV "If multiple opponents are involved in the grapple, you pick one to make the opposed grapple check against. In
this case, you don't have to randomly determine which foe your grab attack strikes (see Part One). If that seems
overly generous to you, you can require a full-round action to choose your target. As part of that action, you
make the grab and the ensuing opposed grapple check to try and establish a hold."
Since you only roll randomly for a ranged attack, the fact that it says you don't need to roll randomly for choosing an opponent to make an opposed grapple check is redundant and assumes that you indeed need to during other times during a grapple which isn't the case (and only the case when attacking with ranged weapons).
Egres
First Post
Skip says, in the article; "In this case, you don't have to randomly determine which foe your grab attack strikes (see Part One)."Hypersmurf said:
This is after talking about an opposed grapple check.
You only make an opposed grapple check if we're talking melee; you can't grapple at range.
I'm just wondering, if in this case, you don't have to randomly determine which foe your grab attack strikes in melee, what other cases you could possibly ever have to roll randomly to determine who the grab attack hits in melee. Saying "in this case" implies there's at least one other case where you would indeed need to roll randomly.
And, according to the core rules, you only need to roll randomly for ranged attacks. Thus, Skip is implying something contrary to the rules.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Egres said:
It can imply that, but it doesn't have to. He is not discussing any other cases; he's only discussing "this case".
If you choose to make inferences about the cases he isn't discussing, and those inferences turn out to be wrong, that's your mistake.
-Hyp.
ThirdWizard
First Post
Hypersmurf said:
It would behoove Skip to avoid any kind of ambiguity. The Rules of the Game articles are, theoretically, for those that arn't extremely good at reading the books and figuring out how the rules actually work. The vast majority of people might make that very inferance, in which case, the writing is unclear and, while the reader's own fault, has caused confusion that could be easily avoided in editing.
