All About Sneak Attacks (Part Two)

[RigaMortus]

As a rouge, I suggest saving up the 27,000 gp to buy a ring of blinking so
that you can always do Sneak Attack Damage.

Well, not ALWAYS... Just 80% of the time...

The whole 20% miss chance that comes with Blink kind of kills the spell for me. It's a nice utility spell, but I don't think I'd ever use it during combat because of that reason.

 

[jgsugden]

I'm a big critic of the sage, but I thought he did a fine job. A few oversights, but nothing *wrong*.

And I do appreciate the clarifications on the effect of concealment on sneak attacks.

My only (minor) complaints:

1.) I share Hyper's diappointement at the failure to mention stunned, grapples, running, etc ... in the blindsight area.

2.) It troubles me that we've seen two articles on sneak attacks and no mention of hiding. The largest questions I have regarding sneak attacks revolve around hiding. It is one of the most undefined common states in D&D.

3.) The following statement bothers me a bit: "When you can't move, you can't use your Dexterity bonus (if any) to Armor Class, and you can be sneak attacked even when you're not flanked or caught flat-footed." People will quote this out of context and say that any time you can not move from one square to another, a sneak attack against you is possible. I can see someone arguing that this applies when you are held in place by a tanglefoot bag. Reading the rest of the article makes it clear that Skip did not intend for this to be true, but many people don't bother with the whole story when a small portion of the story serves them better ...

Overall, I'm pleased with the effort. If he finishes this series without discussing hiding, however, I'm going to be very disappointed.

 

[James McMurray]

Look at the quote again. According to the article, all it says for being Immobilized is that

When you can't move, you can't use your Dexterity bonus (if any) to Armor Class, and you can be sneak attacked even when you're not flanked or caught flat-footed.

So then ask yourself, does Daze allow you to move? Nope...

Look at the Daze spell again.

attackers get no special advantage against it

So then ask yourself, is Sneak Attack a special advantage? Yep...

 

[Stalker0]

Look at the quote again. According to the article, all it says for being Immobilized is that

So then ask yourself, does Daze allow you to move? Nope...

Sure it does, just not out of your 5 ft square, else you would lose your dex bonus to AC.

 

[Stalker0]

Overall, I'm pleased with the effort. If he finishes this series without discussing hiding, however, I'm going to be very disappointed.

He mentioned total concealment equals invisibility, that seems to include hiding as well.

 

[jgsugden]

He mentioned total concealment equals invisibility, that seems to include hiding as well.

Read the hide skill description. It is surprisingly void of actual game effect information for being hidden. People assume a lot considering this skill, but the actual text is a little too vague. The SRD is certainly vague.

HIDE (DEX; ARMOR CHECK PENALTY)
Check: Your Hide check is opposed by the Spot check of anyone who might see you. You can move up to one-half your normal speed and hide at no penalty. When moving at a speed greater than one-half but less than your normal speed, you take a –5 penalty. It’s practically impossible (–20 penalty) to hide while attacking, running or charging.
A creature larger or smaller than Medium takes a size bonus or penalty on Hide checks depending on its size category: Fine +16, Diminutive +12, Tiny +8, Small +4, Large –4, Huge –8, Gargantuan –12, Colossal –16.
You need cover or concealment in order to attempt a Hide check. Total cover or total concealment usually (but not always; see Special, below) obviates the need for a Hide check, since nothing can see you anyway.
If people are observing you, even casually, you can’t hide. You can run around a corner or behind cover so that you’re out of sight and then hide, but the others then know at least where you went.
If your observers are momentarily distracted (such as by a Bluff check; see below), though, you can attempt to hide. While the others turn their attention from you, you can attempt a Hide check if you can get to a hiding place of some kind. (As a general guideline, the hiding place has to be within 1 foot per rank you have in Hide.) This check, however, is made at a –10 penalty because you have to move fast.
Sniping: If you’ve already successfully hidden at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack, then immediately hide again. You take a –20 penalty on your Hide check to conceal yourself after the shot.
Creating a Diversion to Hide: You can use Bluff to help you hide. A successful Bluff check can give you the momentary diversion you need to attempt a Hide check while people are aware of you.
Action: Usually none. Normally, you make a Hide check as part of movement, so it doesn’t take a separate action. However, hiding immediately after a ranged attack (see Sniping, above) is a move action.
Special: If you are invisible, you gain a +40 bonus on Hide checks if you are immobile, or a +20 bonus on Hide checks if you’re moving.
If you have the Stealthy feat, you get a +2 bonus on Hide checks.
A 13th-level ranger can attempt a Hide check in any sort of natural terrain, even if it doesn’t grant cover or concealment. A 17thlevel ranger can do this even while being observed.

 

[RigaMortus]

Sure it does, just not out of your 5 ft square, else you would lose your dex bonus to AC.

I don't see anything in Daze that says you can move, so long as it's within your 5' square. Can you show me a quote please?

 

[James McMurray]

Daze des not state that you are immobilized, and it does not state that you lose your dexterity bonus to AC. Creatures that are immobilized (such as from Hold Person) lose their dex bonus to AC. Therefore Daze != Immobilized.

 

[James McMurray]

Your Hide check is opposed by the Spot check of anyone who might see you

Sems to me like if they don't make their spot check they don't see you. If they don't see you, you have total concealment.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Don't panic yet. He said 'Immobility is one time ...', not 'Immobility is the one time ...'

Point. I must have mentally inserted an article when I read the sentence.

Okay, quibble retracted

Aren't you supposed to be flat foot until you act your first initiative?

Absolutely.

I would assume that this rule apply in the middle of a combat where the rogue suddenly comes out of hidding to SA an already fighting opponents.

No. If they're already fighting, it's after their first initiative, and they are not flat-footed.

Your first attack gains the benefits of being an invisible attacker; after that, you're not an invisible attacker, so there's no bonus.

-Hyp.