All D20 Is Broken

[MoogleEmpMog]

This is a strength of the game. It has versatility, the game changes and the characters change quite a bit as the campaign goes on. Of course doing this and having a successful campaign span the many levels is much harder then running other RPGs that are not like this. Maybe that is where tyhese problems are coming from. Third edition is not the basic game.

Ultimately, though, why is that a strength - or even versatility?

HERO has versatility in that you can start at 150 points or 300 or 1000 and it remains basically playable, but with a different style (caveat: I don't actually reccomend 1000 point HERO; character creation alone is a nightmare). SilCore likewise, but simpler and with much lower numbers.

D&D in particular forces you to move through different styles of play if you want to have progress with the same group of characters. Many players seem to have a 'sweet spot' of levels they particularly like to play at; why can't they continue to play the same characters, expanding their abilities and improving incrementally, without having to leave that sweet spot? They could heavily cut down on XP and treasure and advance slower (the AD&D system), but then the feel of steady progression, which many players seem to enjoy, is lost.

Obviously, D&D has proven more popular than HERO or SilCore. On the flip side, it's proven less popular than Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest, so I'm not sure the "game changes considerably as you advance in levels" aspect is a strength.

 

[Nightfall]

I think some people throw around the word "broken" with casual ease these days.

*thinks it's no different than people tossing around other words but agrees the word Broken get overused a great deal.*

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

D&D. Star Wars. Forgotten Realms. Eberron. Modern.

Any D20 based game I've played past level 7 or 8 just seems to get way broken.

Since 1977, I've played in about 70+ RPG systems, not including the various editions that come along.

Lets make that into a more general statement for purposes of this discussion:

Any game I've played past a certain point just seems to get way broken.

In other words- no game is perfect.

 

[Turjan]

If you're playing Star Wars, duels don't go on because you've either got a critical, or your saber is doing 4D8+ damage each whack.

That's level ten, right? With two attacks per round, if you just use a basic attack. Additionally, the attacks ignore damage reduction.

I just bought the SW book because I thought about using the rules for some kind of space opera game, and I'm in the process of doing the math. But SW isn't "d20". Generally, D&D has a narrow level window where attack and defensive qualities are pretty well balanced across classes. On my first look, SW seems to have a few problems in this regard (experienced players may correct me ). But SW is not a good example for d20 in general, because it probably wants to emulate the "jedi better than everyone else" feeling from the movies.

 

[FireLance]

What can make the game simpler and less bogged down...and what will make the characters capable, but not have two superfighters square off for an epic 2-round combat?

1) Everybody plays experts with no magical equipment.
2) Double everybody's hit points.
3) Everybody gets a Dodge bonus to AC equal to character level.
4) Get ready for sessions that go something like this:
"You miss him."
"He misses you."
"You miss him."
"He misses you."
"You hit him and deal 10 points of damage. He looks barely injured."
"He misses you."
"You miss him."
"He misses you."

Seriously, though - long, drawn-out combats might look nice on screen, when there are cool visuals and background music, but it's a real drag to play through in a game.

 

[Turjan]

1) Everybody plays experts with no magical equipment.
2) Double everybody's hit points.
3) Everybody gets a Dodge bonus to AC equal to character level.
4) Get ready for sessions that go something like this:
"You miss him."
"He misses you."
"You miss him."
"He misses you."
"You hit him and deal 10 points of damage. He looks barely injured."
"He misses you."
"You miss him."
"He misses you."

Seriously, though - long, drawn-out combats might look nice on screen, when there are cool visuals and background music, but it's a real drag to play through in a game.

Ah, maybe BRP is the right system here. Atack - parry - attack - parry - attack - parry...
The winner is whose weapon breaks last .

 

[FireLance]

Ah, maybe BRP is the right system here. Atack - parry - attack - parry - attack - parry...
The winner is whose weapon breaks last .

Please let me know what BRP is so that I can avoid it.

 

[barsoomcore]

Seriously, though - long, drawn-out combats might look nice on screen, when there are cool visuals and background music, but it's a real drag to play through in a game.

Or you play Feng Shui. Either way.

 

[LostSoul]

I think some people throw around the word "broken" with casual ease these days.

This post is broken.

 

[Sejs]

But SW is not a good example for d20 in general, because it probably wants to emulate the "jedi better than everyone else" feeling from the movies.

That's actually a failing of pretty much every single Star Wars game in existance. By its very nature a system based on the SW films will eventually boil down to "You either use the Force or you are Window Dressing".

Just a touch irksome.