All i Really Care About is Interesting Choices

[Reynard]

I appreciate the effort folks are putting in, regarding me understanding the PbtA/BitD play mode but I fear it might be wasted. Maybe I'm too thick, or too set in my ways, but I literally don't get it (at least insofar as how it can be this huge paradigm shift). Having played Dungeon World and Blades once each with 2 different GMs, I came away with the feeling that it was a somewhat more explicitly shared narrative, but nothing so different that I was awed.

Anyway, I'm not sure it's worth the effort to keep going, and I don't want to end up coming off as dismissive or anti-PbtA. I might see if I can find a good example of Dungeon World play on YouTube to see what I'm missing, but I also might not since frankly I am perfectly happy with my trad style.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Just to be clear - Atomic Robo isn't some experimental form of play, or deep piece about relationships or Drama. It is pretty standard action-adventure stuff. It is expecting characters to do wacky things to resolve wacky situations.

Is FATE now considered part of the mainstream of gaming?

 

[Ovinomancer]

I appreciate the effort folks are putting in, regarding me understanding the PbtA/BitD play mode but I fear it might be wasted. Maybe I'm too thick, or too set in my ways, but I literally don't get it (at least insofar as how it can be this huge paradigm shift). Having played Dungeon World and Blades once each with 2 different GMs, I came away with the feeling that it was a somewhat more explicitly shared narrative, but nothing so different that I was awed.

Anyway, I'm not sure it's worth the effort to keep going, and I don't want to end up coming off as dismissive or anti-PbtA. I might see if I can find a good example of Dungeon World play on YouTube to see what I'm missing, but I also might not since frankly I am perfectly happy with my trad style.

Sure. It's a hard leap, especially if you already have a great deal of "knowing how RPGs work" which builds up over time. I had a hard time with it, myself. But I can absolutely say that on the backside of that, there's a big difference in play, and one that I, also, thought had to be just being aggrandized prior to actually grokking it. There's absolutely no need to do so, though, especially if you're happy with what you're doing. Personally, I'm very glad I did, because it's made all of my gaming better because I no longer expect systems to provide things they have trouble providing and so lean into them for what they do well instead. Much less frustration with everything. My 5e games got better (especially once I stopped trying to drift them).

 

[mythago]

I appreciate the effort folks are putting in, regarding me understanding the PbtA/BitD play mode but I fear it might be wasted. Maybe I'm too thick, or too set in my ways, but I literally don't get it (at least insofar as how it can be this huge paradigm shift). Having played Dungeon World and Blades once each with 2 different GMs, I came away with the feeling that it was a somewhat more explicitly shared narrative, but nothing so different that I was awed.

You might want to check out Robin's Laws of Good Gamemastering if you haven't already read it. People have different styles of play and things they are going to get out of games. If your principle pleasure in running RPGs is tactical storytelling, of course you're going to be baffled by the people whose preferred approach is method acting. Doesn't mean either of you is "wrong", but it's a mistaken exercise to argue that RPGs should be [the way I think they should be played] or they're not games.

FWIW, for an 'interesting choices' game I don't think it gets better than Ten Candles. The end result of the game is always TPK, so there is no way for players to cheese the game or make game-breaking choices. The whole story of the game is not about whether the players will "win", it's about the choices they make on their march to their inevitable death.

 

[Ovinomancer]

You might want to check out Robin's Laws of Good Gamemastering if you haven't already read it. People have different styles of play and things they are going to get out of games. If your principle pleasure in running RPGs is tactical storytelling, of course you're going to be baffled by the people whose preferred approach is method acting. Doesn't mean either of you is "wrong", but it's a mistaken exercise to argue that RPGs should be [the way I think they should be played] or they're not games.

FWIW, for an 'interesting choices' game I don't think it gets better than Ten Candles. The end result of the game is always TPK, so there is no way for players to cheese the game or make game-breaking choices. The whole story of the game is not about whether the players will "win", it's about the choices they make on their march to their inevitable death.

Robin's Laws sticks pretty closely to a Trad approach and discusses things within that. If you're primarily interested in Trad play, it's a fantastic resource.

 

[overgeeked]

I appreciate the effort folks are putting in, regarding me understanding the PbtA/BitD play mode but I fear it might be wasted. Maybe I'm too thick, or too set in my ways, but I literally don't get it (at least insofar as how it can be this huge paradigm shift). Having played Dungeon World and Blades once each with 2 different GMs, I came away with the feeling that it was a somewhat more explicitly shared narrative, but nothing so different that I was awed.

Anyway, I'm not sure it's worth the effort to keep going, and I don't want to end up coming off as dismissive or anti-PbtA. I might see if I can find a good example of Dungeon World play on YouTube to see what I'm missing, but I also might not since frankly I am perfectly happy with my trad style.

There's a Dungeon World live play with Matt Mercer and Adam Koebel, one of the designers of DW. I thought there was another with Adam as the referee, but I can't seem to find it.

 

[Reynard]

Robin's Laws sticks pretty closely to a Trad approach and discusses things within that. If you're primarily interested in Trad play, it's a fantastic resource.

I was going to say much the same thing: Robin's Laws had a big impact on me when it came out what 20 years ago now, but it's a trad GMing book, through and through.

 

[Aldarc]

I appreciate the effort folks are putting in, regarding me understanding the PbtA/BitD play mode but I fear it might be wasted. Maybe I'm too thick, or too set in my ways, but I literally don't get it (at least insofar as how it can be this huge paradigm shift). Having played Dungeon World and Blades once each with 2 different GMs, I came away with the feeling that it was a somewhat more explicitly shared narrative, but nothing so different that I was awed.

Anyway, I'm not sure it's worth the effort to keep going, and I don't want to end up coming off as dismissive or anti-PbtA. I might see if I can find a good example of Dungeon World play on YouTube to see what I'm missing, but I also might not since frankly I am perfectly happy with my trad style.

If you are interested in Dungeon World play, I would suggest this series meant to demonstrate Stonetop (an evolution of Dungeon World) by Jeremy Strandberg. This video series also tries to explain the rules (and GM principles) when they are pertinent to play.

For example:

Spoiler

 

[Fenris-77]

As a very slight aside to @Manbearcat 's wonderful synopsis of BitD play, I'll just add that the dice are not the masters in the game. It's wonderfully collaborative and in the moment, and all the dice do is suggest ways to frame what happens next, and the players have a lot of options to add dice and manipulate the position and effect before a given roll.

 

[hawkeyefan]

As a very slight aside to @Manbearcat 's wonderful synopsis of BitD play, I'll just add that the dice are not the masters in the game. It's wonderfully collaborative and in the moment, and all the dice do is suggest ways to frame what happens next, and the players have a lot of options to add dice and manipulate the position and effect before a given roll.

Yup. I find that part of the game…my ability as a player to negotiate position for effect, or to push a roll to increase dice or get greater effect, or to assist another PC… these are all interesting choices I make as a player. A whole other sphere of decision points that’s open to the players.