Alright well I know there's a SW II thread...

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

There are flaws in the movie but total condemnation of it (especially for the reasons you suggest) sound like sour grapes to me. I am proud to be a geek that remains in love with SW. I love it that for a little while last week I was 11 years old again.

Bravo, Eosin the Red!

My inner geek got out shortly before TPM came out, and he's been in the driver's seat ever since. He irks the hell out of my girlfriend sometimes, but I'm enjoying the ride.

btw- Are you a histologist (or other biologist) by any chance?

 

[Eosin the Red]

Canis--


I am a RN - specializing in toxicology/ICU (can't make up my mind). My love for biology shows -eehh? Yes, the name means what you think

 

[Skarp Hedin]

really an accurate retelling of pre-Christian gnostic philosophy so subversive it's been repressed for centuries and they only got away with the movie because it was so well hidden the international conspiracy didn't see it

Uhh.. I've never seen this anywhere (not that I've looked, mind you), but I will say (in a slight tangent) that the gnostic elements of the film aren't particularly well-hidden, or even hidden at all. They're not even unusual -- themes involving liberation/change through secret knowledge are hardly uncommon (ex: Luke's discovery of his father's identity in the Star Wars films certainly changes him radically, and primarily spiritually).

But hey... Who can pass up a good international, uh, anti-Gnosis conspiracy? Not me!

 

[JeffB]

I've been following threads at various forums since I saw EPII on Sunday.

I'm one of the original SW fans having seen the first showing of A New Hope (hell we never called it that..it was just "Star Wars"). Saw the orginal trilogy a bazillion times in the theatres, bought the original VHS and Special editions, etc. I don't go to the movies. In fact I've seen 4 different movies in the past 5 or 6 years (Episode I, Episode II, LotR/FotR, and Titanic..that's it)..I don't follow the EU, but I love Star Wars...I also (barring the overuse of Jar Jar binks) LOVED Episode I. I saw it once in the theatre, but I watch the DVD constantly.

That being said AotC dissapointed me. The acting didn't really bother me, or plot holes, or any of the stuff most people bring up..it just didn't FEEL like a SW flick to me..It had it's good moments for sure, but I think that several things are missing from it and I have a few comments...

1) We all know the ending..when we saw the originals we didn't know what was going to happen..this prequel skews everyones perceptions..since all we are waiting to find out are the "details".

2) Lucas was on the right track with E1: the "better days" (more flowing lines , brighter colors less utilitarian design)of the 1920's/30's (barring the great depression obviously)....contrasted to the "lived in, dull colored look" and WWII feel of the original trilogy...AotC seemed like any other SciFi flick of this day and age..

3) The pulp roots that are crucial to the original Trilogy tried to surface in AotC, namely the gladitorial scene..but just weren't "convincing" enough

4)While the CGI for the most part was flawless, there's so much, it makes the scenery way too "busy" and distracts the audience from the charaters and plot..In the Original movie the scenery and sets complemented the script/plot..now it's supposed to "make" the movie...

5) I thought Anakin was portrayed fairly well, and Ewan as in EPI is a perfect Obi-Wan..but in AotC he seems very "weak" in power as a Jedi..whereas in EPI we could "forsee" him becoming a great Jedi, in AotC he seems ineffectual and his lightsaber skills seem diminished..E.G. Count Dooku kicks his butt a little too easily, if you ask me...Of course Obi-wan is probably know best for his great wisdom, as opposed to his fighting Skills, but there is no "growth" to his power in 10 years it seems

6) There is no Qui-Gon-Jin I loved this character, and IMO is by far the best portrayal of a Jedi in the SW universe yet...There is no character in AotC that we can "look up to" as we did with Obi Wan in the original trilogy or Qui-Gon in EPI. QGJ was capable of great wisdom, defiance, great conviction, confidence, considerable fighting prowess, yet was still an aging Jedi who obviously was a bit winded after his first encounter with Darth Maul, and frustrated when trying to convince Watto that "credits will do fine". Mace Windu (who IMO is the only charcater to show truly poor acting), and even Yoda seem "shallow" in contrast.. the conviction,power, and wisdom of the Jedi in AotC is just not there.. (yeah Yoda is powerful with the force..he does give Dooku a run for his money..but he doesn't have the conviction, good natured stubborn attitude,and infinite wisdom he should show for someone who is nearly 900 years old....no growth..it's like he's become younger, and less wise)..

7) Again..like Obi Wan..Jango Fett is supposed to be some total bad-A$$, and yet he's nixed by Windu like he's a battle droid..no consistency..yeah Windu is a master, but Jango makes Obi-Wan look like a litle kid...

That said, I did like AotC...I just didn't LOVE it....IMO, TPM despite it's faults was a better SW movie AFAIC ..And I suspect nothing will ever live up to our expectations, and live up to the original Trilogy no matter how well it's done.

JeffB

 

[JacktheRabbit]

You also forgot to mention a poorly thought out plot one can drive a semi through.

The Matrix is fine as long as you accept that the movie was written around specific special effects. Those effects were more important than the movie.

Or are you going to tell me that if not for the slow motion scenes you would actually enjoy The Matrix. All the movie really amounts to is a fast moving action flick that tells us that even geeks can kick ass.

Canis wrote:


This is funny to me. I loved Star Wars. Wasn't thrilled with PM but the depth of the plot in AotC is really astounding (if you look for it - or maybe I just hit the crack pipe one too many times). The acting....ughh. Hard to defend it.

Where is all of this going? It looks like the plot of the Matrix comes from exactly the same place as Star Wars. I think it is a new Star Wars with its own mythology, but it is essentially the story of Luke told in cyberspace.

Boy with destiny lives a life sheltered from the real world.
Boy leaves real world and engages in many harrowing escapes.
Boy returns to face enemy for friend...
Boy beaten..
Boy finds love and greater meaning..
Boy returns and kicks hiney.

Same story. Same appeal. Thats the way I see it anyway.

But Padme the way hotter babe.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

I cannot disagree more strongly with this statement. In the fight with Obi-Wan Jengo had EVERY advantage and yet he still barely survived the encounter. In fact if his son had not acted as he did with the Slave 1's guns I would say that Jengo would have lost that battle.

Against Windu the fight was much more fair. Jengo did not have his son in his ship and getting trampled by the dino monster had damaged his jet pack. So it was a straight one on one fight that Jengo could not easily escape from.

The end result was his death and the powerful scene of Boba holding his fathers helmet to his head.

7) Again..like Obi Wan..Jango Fett is supposed to be some total bad-A$$, and yet he's nixed by Windu like he's a battle droid..no consistency..yeah Windu is a master, but Jango makes Obi-Wan look like a litle kid...

JeffB

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

5) I thought Anakin was portrayed fairly well, and Ewan as in EPI is a perfect Obi-Wan..but in AotC he seems very "weak" in power as a Jedi..whereas in EPI we could "forsee" him becoming a great Jedi, in AotC he seems ineffectual and his lightsaber skills seem diminished..E.G. Count Dooku kicks his butt a little too easily, if you ask me...Of course Obi-wan is probably know best for his great wisdom, as opposed to his fighting Skills, but there is no "growth" to his power in 10 years it seems

Well, Doc Moriarty addressed Jango Fett, so I'll tackle this one

It's not that Obi-Wan didn't become a better swordsman, it's that Count Dooku is THAT much better than Darth Maul. I'm not a swordsman by any stretch of the imagination (I'm about 1/4 trained in some aspects of Kali) but from my limited experience I'm prepared to say that the fights in AotC were actually quite a bit more realistic and showed more skill than the fight in TPM. Obi-Wan was less aggresive certainly, but he was also not running on the Dark Side like he was at the tail end of his fight with Darth Maul, and he was fighting with someone who he knew was deadly with a lightsaber. So his style was somewhat more defensive. It was less flashy than the Darth Maul fight, but then EVERYTHING about Darth Maul was all flash, no substance, so it's not a surprise that it carried over to his fight with Obi-Wan.

Also, I have to disagree with you about the art design. I also liked that the "better days" of Star Wars looked great in TPM. The Republic hadn't really started to disintegrate yet. But the plot necessitated that things get darker and grittier. If the whole galaxy WEREN'T a bit darker and grittier, why would planets want to secede from the Republic? The dark and gritty world of the OT wouldn't just evolve overnight, it's necessary to the set-up.

 

[Eosin the Red]

You also forgot to mention a poorly thought out plot one can drive a semi through.

For which movie?


Plot holes are often like beauty. You know the rest.

It is nearly the same story, denying doesn't make it not so. Only the setting and internal logic of the world are different.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

I was talking about The Matrix. The only real plot holes in the Star Wars movies come from peoples assumptions caused by all the books that have been written. Lucas has said several times that those books mean nothing in his Star Wars universe.

For which movie?


Plot holes are often like beauty. You know the rest.

It is nearly the same story, denying doesn't make it not so. Only the setting and internal logic of the world are different.

 

[Eosin the Red]

Related to the Dooku ---- Maul thing.

Dooku is a fallen Jedi Master. He is not some Sith lackey like Maul (a cool character in his own right). Though in the end I suspect he will be a Sith punk/cannon fodder.


PS - don't remember who posted the Mace Windu falling to Boba thing.

Never happen. Mace has to die at the hands of Sidious. He is the "baddest of the bad among the Jedi." His death will show Anakin what true power really is.