alt. Dragon Disciple PrC?

[DeBhaal]

Ok, next question about Enlargement, should the bonuses of growing a size larger stack with the bonuses that you get for taking the DD PrC?
And, if they should stack, should the Enlargement be spread out abit more, because is doesnt quite make sense to me that you suddenly(read: over the course of a level) grow 3 or 4 feet in size, maybe more, maybe less. And if the Enlargement all on one level is the case, I think it probably should take place in 7th level of the PrC, and maybe even the Apotheisis.

Still no comments on the thing I would like to hear about most!

 

[Buddha the DM]

Actually now that I think about it a little more, including Enlargement and its bonuses due to size increase (yes I do say that they should stack with those gained from the PrC) with the Apotheosis class feature would be a good idea.

A unique spell progression for the PrC, and a spell list for each type of half-dragon, would add even more flavor to the class.

 

[DeBhaal]

Originally posted by Buddha the DM
A unique spell progression for the PrC, and a spell list for each type of half-dragon, would add even more flavor to the class.

Exactly what I was wanting to hear!!
Im thinking kind of themed spell lists, depending on the type of Breath Weapon you have, and maybe a little more depending on the base Dragon type. Keeping with my above example of the Gold Dragon from your alt.Half-Dragon template, the DD spell list would include spells with the fire descriptor, and possibly a couple others such as Polymoprh self, bless, geas/quest sunburst, forsight. Maybe the ability to cast CLW or some others. Note: These are just ideas, feel free to shoot them down/add to them .
If the above were allowed, then those would be the only spells avalible to them, they would override the spells from the previous spellcasting class that you used to gain access to the Dragon Disciple PrC. Does that seem to limiting?

Sofar, we have
-Stat Boosts figured out
-Nat.Armor
-the Enlargement and Wings moved to Apotheisis
-Working on Spell progression
-Saves/BAB stay the same(this is still open to more debate)
-And anything else is still open for more debate! :hint, hint, wink, wink:: )

 

[Buddha the DM]

Themed spell lists is good. I suggest restricting spells to Levels 0 through 4. This list was constructed using the PHB and Tome & Blood.

For Example Gold might have:

0- Flare, Light, Arcane Mark, Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, Read Magic

1- Change Self, Color Spray, Endure Elements, Mage Armor, Burning Hands, Lesser Fire Orb

2- Resist Elements, Daylight, Flaming Sphere, Continual Flame, Alter Self, Pyrotechnics

3- Flame Arrows, Protection from Elements, Fireball, Haste, Keen Edge, Displacement

4- Mass Resist Elements, Fire Orb, Fire Trap, Fire Shield, Wall of Fire, Polymorph Self


I'd also suggest that the PrC be able to cast no more than 4 spells of each level per day at 10th Level, baring any bonus spells from high ability scores.

 

[Pax]

Just to give a different spinon things -- I haven't read the other half-dragon revamp, but I'd like to share what I've chosen to do IMC.

FOR THE HALF DRAGON ... some basic premises to keep inmind: one, I wanted to maketh Half-Dragon template weaker at low levels, but stronger at hgiher levels; two, I wanted to bring the mechanics of breath weapon usage per day more in line with the full Dragons, but still more limited. Three, outright immunities are distasteful to me, so ever-increasing (iow level-scalar) strong resistances aren't. I also wanted to make half-Chromatics a bit different from Half-Metallics. Eventually I'll have to script similar for the Psionic and other dragon types out there.

FOR THE DRAGON DISCIPLE ... for a PrC aimed at spellcasters, sorcerors in particular, the class seems anemically light on the spellcasting end. Mostof my players complained they'd never take it, because it seemed better suited to fighters -- Strength increases, armor, size, and so on -- and a bad choice for Sorcerors -- no casting levels. Let's face it,a Sorceror-10 / DragonDisciple-10 can only cast 5th level spells -- at caster level 10! So much for a spellcasting prestige class, eh?

Oh, the "Draconic Bloodline" feat is from tehNet Book of Feats; fairly nice idea, indicates someone who *is* in fact very slightly draconic in heritage, suited the PrC perfectly IMO. Could be replaced with something else, or omitted entirely, ofc.

Thus, here are my current-version modifications t the Half Dragon template and the Dragon Disciple PrC; the length if I cut-and-paste is a bit dicey, and the formatting would be lost (making for tediousity hell for me ...), so I've just rendered them down into a miniaturised portionof my Hous eRules v0.4 ... download link provided.

 

[DeBhaal]

Pax, that was pretty good, but Im not quite sure if I agree on making it a 5 level PrC.

Im liking it to remain a ten level PrC, and you steadily change, the 5 level on, seems almost rushed to me.

 

[Buddha the DM]

I'd also like to keep the Dragon Disciple PrC a 10 Lv PrC.

I'd attach a current copy of my alt.Half-Dragon Template to this post but the file is too big in either DOC or RTF formats. The link in my signature will take you directly to the template on my website.

 

[Pax]

Pax, that was pretty good, but Im not quite sure if I agree on making it a 5 level PrC.

Im liking it to remain a ten level PrC, and you steadily change, the 5 level on, seems almost rushed to me.

That's fair enough.

Mainly I offered it to suggest that perhaps, givine a number of spellcasting levels would be better.

As it stands the way the rules were published, teh DD PrC is more suited for fighters (the size, attributes, armor, breath weapon, etc). Gnomes cover the spellcasting racially, and so need NO sorceror or bard levels.

And if you read the table -- the Hit Die Increase ability obviously assumes ONLY Bards and Sorcerors are taking the DD PrC; so what does Hit Die Increase do, if you already have a 1d6, 1d8, 1d10, or god forbid 1d12 for your Hit Die (Gnome Barbarian/DD anyone?) ?!?

The DD wasn't thought out. My rescript of it was aimed at making it much more attractive to a spellcaster; that way, taking the class instead of the template costs you, still, only 3 casting levels ... and you didn't have the benefits of the template at lower levels, where it's REALLY powerful.

I suggest figurign out what hte "normal" half-dragons ECL offset is, and only "charging" DD spellcasters that many caster levels. IOW, if you decide to makeHalf Dragon an ECL +5 race, then, a bonus spellcasting level, gained every other level on a 10-level track, IMO is appropriate for the DD.

Glad you likd it enough in general terms, though.

 

[Buddha the DM]

*ba-da-bump*

 

[DeBhaal]

Thanks Buddha
Things just kept coming up.


So we agree they should have their own spell progression ...
What about Breath Weapon, 1/3full power at 3rd level, and 2/3full power at 7th level, that seems reasonable to me.

I have a question about the Skills listing, why do they have Escape Artist, as a class skill?