Alt Ranger

[Gilrion]

There are some problems with your ranger, IMO. Lets go at this case-by-case:


Favored Enemy: your take on Favored Enemy is... different. I think I like it, though I'd have to see it in action.

Favored Combat Style: the mechanics are awkward. It takes a long time to get the feats: especially the case of Ambidexterity, you won't be an accomplished two-weapon fighter until level 11!! That's more than half your career, and many many campaigns end before 10th level. This system is too weird to work, IMO: either you give most bonuses up front, which would likely be unbalancing, or you don't give them at all. Having to wait for 11th level to get Rapid Shot will not make me a good archer.

Spirited Stride: this makes sense for the Ranger, but it takes away from the barbarian. It steps on the Bbn's toes, which is wrong IMO.

Woodland Stride: I don't think this makes sense for the Ranger, because it is a supernatural ability. A Ranger should be hard to track, yes, but not by magic: by skill. Maybe add half the ranks of wilderness lore to the track check, or treat tracking a Ranger as an opposed check... Of course this is useless unless the Ranger is alone or amongst Rangers.

Natural Healing: why make this so complicated? I love the idea (in fact, one of my suggested Ranger abilities is healing doubled from rest/sleep, which is kind of related) but the mechanics are once again too complicated. Why is this a Ranger-only ability? It sounds like something anyone with the healing skill could have, maybe coupled with Profession: Herbalist. If anything, a Druid is more proficient with herbs.
I like the idea behind this, though: if a Ranger rolls a Wilderness Lore check, he will find herbs and thus heal better. Wilderness Lore can only be rolled in the wild (I find your referrence to woodlands too restrictive: what if I'm an arctic Ranger?) so if you're there or you have access to fresh herbs, you could heal at an improved rate. Maybe it could even be extent to other characters the Ranger treats.

Spring Attack: once again, this comes too late IMO. At 14th level you will likely have taken Spring Attack anyway if you're a skirmisher type. If you're not, the feat is of no use to you.

As a sidenote, the Ranger casts divine spells, not arcane.


Well, that's it from me. Sorry the outcome is not better. For what it's worth I wish you had been the one to make me a Ranger

 

[RandyWalker]

Major Revisions

Ok, I've made major revisions, but kept the same general ideas. Each ability has been changed, including the ability to cast spells. Let me know what you think now!

~Archmage

 

[Artimus]

Great!

Love it now! It's a must use. I think this is the "as close to a perfect ranger" as your going to get! 2 Thumbs and 2 big toes way way up.

Edit: Forgot to mention, I'm going to play this in my next game!

 

[Dr. Zoom]

You made some good revisions, Archmage. Here are my thoughts on the new version.


Favored Enemy: Looks good. I think the +2 should be bumped to 5th level, though, to keep things even.

Tracking: Right. Rangers should never leave home without it.

Favored Combat Style: This is much better. Are these virtual feats or does the ranger actually have to have a dex of 15+ to pick Ambidexterity?

I still think the ranger should have at least one of these at first level. The best method I have found is to allow the ranger to drop the virtual feats for one real feat. Then the ranger can begin his own style rather than the "typical" two weapon fighting.

Invigorating Terrain: Leave fast movement to others. If you want something like this for the ranger, add Expeditious Retreat to his spell list. Another thing you could do is to make a "new uses" list for Wilderness Lore to be used by anyone trained with the skill. Hopefully the upcoming Masters of the Wild will have some of this already.

Nimble Stride: Again, the ranger gets this ability from his spells (Pass without Trace). Much of the ranger's powers come from his spells. That is why I like Monte's spell progression.

Spring Attack: Scrap this. Not something for all rangers. If he wants it, let him get it normally.

Natural Healing: Not really necessary. Perhaps he can use WL to locate some ingredients for the Healing Salve, making it cheaper to make.

Spells: Good. You left out Entangle (1st level) and Cure Moderate Wounds (3rd level). Perhaps add Expeditious Retreat to the 1st level list.

 

[RandyWalker]

You made some good revisions, Archmage. Here are my thoughts on the new version.

Thanks. Go ahead.

Favored Enemy: Looks good. I think the +2 should be bumped to 5th level, though, to keep things even.

Whoops. My bad. Thanks for spotting that.

Tracking: Right. Rangers should never leave home without it.

Right...

Favored Combat Style: This is much better. Are these virtual feats or does the ranger actually have to have a dex of 15+ to pick Ambidexterity?

I still think the ranger should have at least one of these at first level. The best method I have found is to allow the ranger to drop the virtual feats for one real feat. Then the ranger can begin his own style rather than the "typical" two weapon fighting.

Yes, these are virtual feats. Also, a Ranger doesn't have to take Two-Weapon Fighting. There are two other combat options. I moved them all up a level, too.

Invigorating Terrain: Leave fast movement to others. If you want something like this for the ranger, add Expeditious Retreat to his spell list. Another thing you could do is to make a "new uses" list for Wilderness Lore to be used by anyone trained with the skill. Hopefully the upcoming Masters of the Wild will have some of this already.

Okay, after two versions, I've finally been talked out of fast movement for free.

Nimble Stride: Again, the ranger gets this ability from his spells (Pass without Trace). Much of the ranger's powers come from his spells. That is why I like Monte's spell progression.

Okay, after two versions, I'be finally been talked out of pass without trace for free.

Spring Attack: Scrap this. Not something for all rangers. If he wants it, let him get it normally.

I see your point...

Natural Healing: Not really necessary. Perhaps he can use WL to locate some ingredients for the Healing Salve, making it cheaper to make.

NO! I like this. This is the second incarnation of the Natural Healing ability and I like it. It stays.

Spells: Good. You left out Entangle (1st level) and Cure Moderate Wounds (3rd level). Perhaps add Expeditious Retreat to the 1st level list.

Whoops. My bad. Thanks for spotting that. And I did add Expedious Retreat to make up for Spirited Sride/ Invigorating Terrain.

 

[Thorvald Kviksverd]

This is one of the nicer variants I've seen

I hate to see a fellow Ranger-lover in pain though, maybe you could re-incorporate Wilderness Stride, Trackless Step, the Move Bonus, etc... by re-naming and adding them to the virtual list--or something similar...

LIGHT STEP: Difficulty to track Ranger increased by Wilderness Lore skill (only functions with light armor and encumberance or less).

RANGING: Ranger's movement afoot not affected by terrain (only functions with light armor and encumberance or less). Note: If this is too powerful, you could always restrict its use to one terrain type per Feat expended.

Alternately, RANGING could reduce the movement penalties imposed by 50%--and would, perhaps, apply to all terrain types for simplicity's sake.

(Edit: added alternative Ranging)

 

[RandyWalker]

Can I give my ranger this? Please?

Light Step: Starting at 15th level, a ranger leaves no footprints when wearing light or no armor.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

quote:
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Natural Healing: Not really necessary. Perhaps he can use WL to locate some ingredients for the Healing Salve, making it cheaper to make.
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NO! I like this. This is the second incarnation of the Natural Healing ability and I like it. It stays.

Oh, alright, keep the natural healing.

The rest looks good, Archmage. I think you have a bonafide playable alt.ranger here. I plan to playtest at least the favored enemy mechanic. Your's and Jack's. Thanks for the contribution.

Can I give my ranger this? Please?

Light Step: Starting at 15th level, a ranger leaves no footprints when wearing light or no armor.

The problem with this and similar powers/abilities is this. First, they intrude too much on other class abilities (like the Druid, for instance). I know there is some overlap of abilities between the classes, but not much. Second, they intrude on the rangers class abilities, too. Much of what is proposed for the ranger as an ability acquired at a certain level is already available to the ranger in the form of his skills or spells, which are too often overlooked.

This ability, although nice, can be accomplished nicely by the Pass Without Trace spell, or the Tree Stride spell. You do not need a special ability for it. If you want your rangers to be faster at times, simply add Expeditious Retreat to their spell list, as you have done. If an ability can be performed with a skill check or a spell, do it that way. This is a good rule of thumb, IMO.

 

[RandyWalker]

Oh, I suppose... I just don't like the ranger relying on spells all the time... seems to bring him down a notch or two in my eyes... Oh well... that's the way of the game.

So, do you all like my ranger?

 

[War Golem]

Oh, I suppose... I just don't like the ranger relying on spells all the time... seems to bring him down a notch or two in my eyes... Oh well... that's the way of the game.

So, do you all like my ranger?

I suppose I may be resurrecting a "dead" thread with this post, but I just stumbled across this alt.ranger (via the DwarvenStronghold Yahoo Group, reached from the "Help Build a Dwarven Stronghold" Whereabouts thread).

Archmage_2001 - I like it a lot!

I will playtest as soon as feasible within the next few weeks and will give you some feedback.

Thanks, and, from the looks of it, good job!