alt.Sorcerer... drastic

[Plane Sailing]

All except the barbarian and fighter. But truthfully, I just missed it.

Actually, only the fighter doesn't get profession as a class skill. Barbarians could be trained architects, but fighters cannot

Something that I haven't seen mentioned - what about spells with focuses? Most foci are quite expensive but reusable. Can you sorcerers use expensive foci (or, indeed, any foci?)

 

[seasong]

Plane Sailing: Must be my crummy 1st printing, then . In my PHB, the barbarian doesn't get it, either.

Spells with foci: Technically, the sorcerer would use it the same way as anyone else. Personally, I would treat it as a material component.

I'm still trawling for commentary on whether or not the sorcerer should be limited by expensive components, however - my mind's not really made up on it.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Plane Sailing: Must be my crummy 1st printing, then . In my PHB, the barbarian doesn't get it, either.

Funny - I've got a 1st printing and I'm sure they get it - maybe I'm thinking of the big table rather than the class entry? I recall being struck right away that Fighters were the only ones with no Profession skill.

Back on topic, I've done a quick check on spells eliminated by the material component cost - I've got

Nondetection (50gp)
Bless Water (25gp)
Teleportation Circle (1000)
Temporal Stasis (5000)
Trap (25) ?Nystuls?
True Seeing (250)
Legend Lore (250)
Raise Dead (500)
Refuge(1500)
Restoration (100)
Resurrection (500) (blimey, thats cheap!)
Forecage (1500)
False Vision (250)
Greater glyph of warding (400)
Glyph of warding (200)
Wall of Iron (50)
Curse Water (25)
Create Undead /greater undead (50 per)
Continual Flame (50)
Magic Mouth (10)
Protection from spells (500)
Programmed image (25)
Permanent image (100)
Divination (25)
Desecrate (25)
Sympathy (1500)
Symbol (5000)
Simulacrum (100)
Illusory script
identify
True Resurrection
Forbiddance
Hallow
Unhallow
Consecrate
Stoneskin
Sepia Snake Sigil

Probably not an exhaustive list. A bit grotty for illusion specialists perhaps.

 

[seasong]

Well... dang. That's more than I thought.

Well, the heck with it, then . It doesn't actually contribute much to the balance of the sorcerer, and their spell selection will be thin already - a spell with a GP cost is a slot taken up that could have been "free" to cast.

So it's dropped. I'll have it editted any second now.

 

[handforged]

I just thought of a slight problem. Seasong, you stated that the main issue with higher levels would be making it so that staying in the class would be a viable option, but with some of the cleric-based PrC's I think that line is lost.

The Divine Oracle for example from Defenders of the Faith, could be attained by this sorceror and would gain all levels of spellcasting, plus:

Divination Prestige Domain
+2 to Scry checks
Presceint Sense (like Evasion but any armor)
Divination Enhancement (increases % chance of being correct)
Uncanny Dodge
Never Surprised

keeps a d6 hit die, less skill points, and only loses two maximized spells a day. It seems that this would make the prestige class the only choice for a divination oriented sorceror (true strike, anyone?)


The Sacred Exorcist from DotF would be an incredibly powerful character combined with ten levels of this alt.sorceror.

d8 HD
10 levels of spells
Only 2 skill points
Exorcism Prestige Domain
Chosen Foe(similar to ranger)
Turn undead as a cleric (level-2)
Extra Turning
Detect Evil
Dispel Evil
Consecrated Presence

If the class were divine, it would be open to even further abuse, due to the fact that most divine classes are specfically worded to only allow additional spell levels in a divine spellcasting class (two two above do not, however).

I still like the class alot, and think that we need to keep working on something to make the high levels more interesting. Maybe some sort of extended Eschew Materials that would allow higher cost materials to be converted into XP costs or some other sort of payment.

~hf

 

[Plane Sailing]

Funny - I've got a 1st printing and I'm sure they get it - maybe I'm thinking of the big table rather than the class entry? I recall being struck right away that Fighters were the only ones with no Profession skill.

Well, I just got home and checked and - lo and behold, the barbarian doesn't get profession skills. Makes complete sense, but I'm a bit concerned about my memory burp... my memory normally works better than that

Cheers

 

[seasong]

I just thought of a slight problem. Seasong, you stated that the main issue with higher levels would be making it so that staying in the class would be a viable option, but with some of the cleric-based PrC's I think that line is lost.

I should have been more specific - staying in the class should be a viable option compared to well designed PrCs.

Many WotC-published PrCs are not well designed, in the sense that sticking with a core class does not make sense compared to going with the PrC. The divine oracle you mention looks like it blows a wizard diviner out of the water as well... same spells, better HD, bonus to scry checks, several nice powers, and all I have to give up is advancing the familiar and one metamagic? Sign me up! Note that this doesn't mean the wizard is underpowered .

 

[seasong]

Well, I just got home and checked and - lo and behold, the barbarian doesn't get profession skills. Makes complete sense, but I'm a bit concerned about my memory burp... my memory normally works better than that

Well, you've been pretty valuable to the discussion, so I'll overlook the infraction just this once . Seriously, you're talking to the guy who required the class to always have verbal component, no way around it, and didn't even think about the silence spell.

 

[handforged]

I agree that the the Divine Oracle is overpowered, I was merely stating that there are clerical prestige classes that will most likely be more advantageous because they do have higher HD and BAB+save progressions, in addition to weapon and armor proficiencies, than wizard or sorceror PrC's. Since these classes are designed with a cleric in mind rather than an arcane caster iffy requirement and wording can cause stickiness. I don't really think this would be that much of an issue considering that the class is not going to be published into a world where all of these PrC's even exist. Don't take my thoughts as negative criticism, I am just thinking here to see what other people have to think about my concerns.

~hf

 

[Technik4]

However most clerical prcs say "Must be able to cast 3rd level divine spells". Seasong's sorceror states that all spells are considered arcane, so this should not be much of an issue (esp with newer prcs which are better about this sort of thing, at least from wotc).

Technik