CRGreathouse
Community Supporter
Sadrik said:
I like the flavor, but the power levels vary quite a bit. Temporalists, already weak with spells, get one of the weakest benefits, while Alchemists who are fairly strong get a large bonus.
Altering subschools around for a new flavor- final version post #16
- Thread starter Sadrik
- Start date
I like the flavor, but the power levels vary quite a bit. Temporalists, already weak with spells, get one of the weakest benefits, while Alchemists who are fairly strong get a large bonus.
Sadrik
First Post
The Temporalist ability is pretty cool! A free bag of holding at first level that no one can take from you!CRGreathouse said:
The arcane trickster ability ranged legerdemain would be perfect for a Temporalist. What about that instead of the bag of holding?
Another Temporalist ability would be the druid animal companion ability but give it a fiendish or celestial template and you can "summon" it and "dismiss" it as a standard action. If it dies during the day it will be back the next day ready to be summoned again. Much more powerful.
As far as the alchemist benefit being too powerful. I have only two feats in my game, craft minor item and craft major item. Minor is potions, scrolls and wands; major is everything else. So, really it is not that powerful.
So the base Wizard class will be as it is now but with one change:
Summon Familiar class feature and scribe scroll are both removed and the wizard gets a bonus wizard feat at first level. Summon Familiar becomes an available wizard bonus feat.
What about the Geomancer Elementalist doing physical damage so DR effects everything they cast but they gain DR 5/-. Earth bolts and Earth balls. That is just cool.
Another thing that is kind of neat about the Elementalist if a Geomancer takes the fire feat they could do magma damage (1/2 fire and 1/2 earth) or ooze damage (1/2 water and 1/2 earth) or dust damage (1/2 air and 1/2 earth).
The others:
1/2 fire and 1/2 water damage: steam
1/2 fire and 1/2 air damage: smoke
1/2 water and 1/2 air damage: salt
Nifft
Penguin Herder
Sadrik said:
"Should" is a bit too strong. I didn't see anything wrong with your system, it's just that I'd probably do it a bit differently, if I were doing it, which I'm not.
First off, summoning. IMHO, not everyone should get to summon critters; however some people should be allowed to summon all kinds of critters.
Secondly, evocations. It's really painful to be forced into a single energy type, and feats are scarce. Be wary of anything that makes a more limited evoker than the core evoker.
Third, non-elemental evocations (like wall of force and contingency). Not really elemental.
Fourth, evil abjurations (e.g. protection from good).
Fifth, non-evil illusion. Where do they fit? Or are all illusionists somehow tainted?
Just some food for thought.
Cheers, -- N
Sadrik
First Post
Gotcha, "could".Nifft said:"Should" is a bit too strong. I didn't see anything wrong with your system, it's just that I'd probably do it a bit differently, if I were doing it, which I'm not.
Right now the only summoner would be the Temporalist. The good and evil descriptors add a bunch of summoning to the shadow and light schools I suppose I can put a blurb- only the temporalist can use summoning and calling schools. Because you are right why would the shadow mage use his shadow magic if he could just summon regular monsters!Nifft said:
Hmm, I like them being limited into one type of energy, I think that gives the elementalist all kinds of flavor- flavor that is kind of missing from the game currently in that area.Nifft said:
He is definitely weaker. However I think the Elementalist school will be the number 1 school to pick up with a feat. BTW the school expansion feat would be on the wizard bonus feat list. The bonus element type feat would also be on the wizard bonus feat list.
I like the concept that for damage is like telekinetic damage. So I can totally see all force magic getting shifted to the Mentalism school. I think I would also change force damage to "physical" damage, rather than have it be "magic" damage. (Have it affected by DR). But give it the special quality that it automatically hits out of phase creatures like force effects normally do.Nifft said:
There is also a big group of evocation spells which grant combat bonuses (ex: divine favor, ), where should those go? Stay with the Elementalist? or move to????
There are also a few that should never have been in evocation (ex: illusion purge, contengency, imbue with spell ability). But I am sure that most of the schools have a couple of weird tangent spells that would need to be dealt with on a case by case basis. For instance Contingency can become mentalism.
Should they be in light or darkness? The evil (and chaotic) ones are in shadow and all other abjurations are in light.Nifft said:
Figments, patterns and any untyped illusions are in mentalism.Nifft said:
Glamers (like displacement, invisibility, disguise self etc.), shadows (all the various shadow magic) and phantasms (nightmare, weird, phantasmal killer etc) are in the shadow school. I think all of those fit.
So, true "illusionists" are split up between "Psionic" like dudes and "Shadowmancers".
Nifft, excellent points how is this below now?
Sadrik
First Post
How about the specialist benefit being:
Mentalism: no somatic components
Light: turn/destroy undead with burnt spell slots
Shadow: rebuke/command undead with burnt spell slots
Elementalism: ER 5 fire, cold or electricity or DR 5/-
Alchemy: Craft Minor magic item
Temporalism: Celestial or Fiendish Animal companion that can be summoned and dismissed????
Mentalism: no somatic components
Light: turn/destroy undead with burnt spell slots
Shadow: rebuke/command undead with burnt spell slots
Elementalism: ER 5 fire, cold or electricity or DR 5/-
Alchemy: Craft Minor magic item
Temporalism: Celestial or Fiendish Animal companion that can be summoned and dismissed????
Sadrik
First Post
Wizard's of a New Shade
Magic Schools
Alchemy: transmutation, conjuration (non-damaging creation spells)
Elementalism: evocation, conjuration (damaging creation spells)
Light: abjuration, divination, conjuration (healing) and all good, law and light descriptor spells
Mentalism: illusion (un-subtyped), illusion (figment), illusion (pattern), enchantment, and all force descriptor spells
Shadow: necromancy, illusion (shadow), illusion (glamer), illusion (phantasm) and all chaos, darkness and evil descriptor spells
Temporalism: conjuration (un-subtyped), conjuration (teleportation), conjuration (calling), conjuration (summoning), all spells similar to ethereal jaunt in other schools, and this is the only school that can "summon" or "call"
Wizard Classes
Wizards begin with only use of spells from their own school. Wizards lose scribe scroll and summon familiar as bonus feats at first level but instead gain a class feature that they can select from their list of class features. The Wizard also gains an additional class feature at levels 5, 10, 15 and 20 instead of a bonus Wizard feat. In place of a Wizard selecting one of the class features they can select a meta magic feat, the spell mastery feat, or gain access to another magic school (note they do not gain the classes flavor or access to the classes class feature list).
Alchemy
Class: Alchemist (alternate names: Archemist, Transmuter, Artificer, Runecaster)
Flavor: Artificer's magic functions buy preparing their "potions, oils, unguents and charms" out of their alchemists kit for the day. They cast their spells by finding the right item and then applying it, drinking it, burning it, or breaking the charm. All rules apply as if they were normally "casting" the spell.
Bonus Class Skills: Search, Open Locks and Disable Device
Class Feature List: Craft Minor Magic Item feat, Craft Magic Item feat, Craft Clockwork Item feat, Runecaster: Allows the Alchemist to use their magic by drawing a rune on the intended object to be effected, Craft Mastery: XP costs are halved for creating items
Elementalism
Class: Elementalist (alternate names: Hydromancer, Pyromancer, Aeromancer, or Geomancer)
Flavor: The Elementalist must specializes in one element and all spells deal that elements type of damage. The specializations are: water- cold, fire- fire, air- lightning, and earth- bludgeoning.
Bonus Class Skills: Survival, Spot and Listen
Class Feature List: Elemental Resistance: ER 5 fire, cold or electricity or DR 5/-, Elemental Defense: +2 to save and AC against magic of their element of specialization, Elemental Expansion: Select another element and be able to blend the damage with the element they are specialized in. (The blended elemental damage types: Scorching steam: ½ fire ½ water, Super-heated smoke: ½ fire ½ air, Magma: ½ fire ½ earth, Sandstorm: ½ earth ½ air, Ice: ½ water ½ earth, and Acid: ½ water ½ air.), Elemental Servant: As Summon Familiar class feature but small elemental of their chosen type, Elemental Penetration: +2 to SR rolls with your chosen elemental type.
Light
Class: Luminomancer (alternate names: Lightbringer, Light Mage, Priest of Light, Diviner)
Flavor: Light Bringers draw their power from channeling positive energy to them.
Bonus Class Skills: Sense Motive, Diplomacy, and Heal
Class Feature List: Positive Energy Channeling: Channel their spells to power divine feats and can turn undead by doing this, select a divine feat, Shadow Defense: gain +2 to save and AC against Shadow school spells, Light Defense: gain +2 to save and AC against Light school spells, Destroy Undead: you can now destroy undead with your Positive Energy Channeling ability.
Mentalism
Class: Mentalist (alternate names: Psion, Mind Mage, Force Master, Illusionist)
Flavor: Mentalists draw their magic from their mind.
Bonus Class Skills: Balance, Escape Artist, and Bluff
Class Feature List: Psionics: No somatic or verbal components, Wild Talent feat, Telekinetic Mastery: force effects ignore DR, Slippery Mind: (as the rogue), Select a psionic feat.
Shadow
Class: Shadowmancer (alternate names: Shadow Mage, Necromancer, Nightbringer, Priest of Darkness)
Flavor: Shadowmancers draw their power from channeling negative energy to them.
Bonus Class Skills: Disguise, Hide and Move Silently
Class Feature List: Negative Energy Channeling: Channel their spells to power divine feats and can rebuke/command undead by doing this, select a divine feat, Light Defense: gain +2 to save and AC against Light school spells, Shadow Defense: select a divine feat, gain +2 to save and AC against Shadow school spells, Command Undead: you can now command undead with your Negative Energy Channeling ability.
Temporalism
Class: Temoralist (alternate names: Portal Master, Summoner, Teleporter, Planar Mage)
Flavor: Temporalists create portals through which all of their magic functions.
Bonus Class Skills: Sleight of Hand, Handle Animal, and Diplomacy
Class Feature List: Planar Servant: celestial or fiendish animal companion (as druid) that can be summoned and dismissed, Portal Cache: access to a portable hole at all times that only he can open and use, Ranged Legerdemain: (as arcane trickster), Planar Affinity: Gain the celestial or fiendish template, Portal Attack: make a melee attack at close range as a standard action.
Magic Schools
Alchemy: transmutation, conjuration (non-damaging creation spells)
Elementalism: evocation, conjuration (damaging creation spells)
Light: abjuration, divination, conjuration (healing) and all good, law and light descriptor spells
Mentalism: illusion (un-subtyped), illusion (figment), illusion (pattern), enchantment, and all force descriptor spells
Shadow: necromancy, illusion (shadow), illusion (glamer), illusion (phantasm) and all chaos, darkness and evil descriptor spells
Temporalism: conjuration (un-subtyped), conjuration (teleportation), conjuration (calling), conjuration (summoning), all spells similar to ethereal jaunt in other schools, and this is the only school that can "summon" or "call"
Wizard Classes
Wizards begin with only use of spells from their own school. Wizards lose scribe scroll and summon familiar as bonus feats at first level but instead gain a class feature that they can select from their list of class features. The Wizard also gains an additional class feature at levels 5, 10, 15 and 20 instead of a bonus Wizard feat. In place of a Wizard selecting one of the class features they can select a meta magic feat, the spell mastery feat, or gain access to another magic school (note they do not gain the classes flavor or access to the classes class feature list).
Alchemy
Class: Alchemist (alternate names: Archemist, Transmuter, Artificer, Runecaster)
Flavor: Artificer's magic functions buy preparing their "potions, oils, unguents and charms" out of their alchemists kit for the day. They cast their spells by finding the right item and then applying it, drinking it, burning it, or breaking the charm. All rules apply as if they were normally "casting" the spell.
Bonus Class Skills: Search, Open Locks and Disable Device
Class Feature List: Craft Minor Magic Item feat, Craft Magic Item feat, Craft Clockwork Item feat, Runecaster: Allows the Alchemist to use their magic by drawing a rune on the intended object to be effected, Craft Mastery: XP costs are halved for creating items
Elementalism
Class: Elementalist (alternate names: Hydromancer, Pyromancer, Aeromancer, or Geomancer)
Flavor: The Elementalist must specializes in one element and all spells deal that elements type of damage. The specializations are: water- cold, fire- fire, air- lightning, and earth- bludgeoning.
Bonus Class Skills: Survival, Spot and Listen
Class Feature List: Elemental Resistance: ER 5 fire, cold or electricity or DR 5/-, Elemental Defense: +2 to save and AC against magic of their element of specialization, Elemental Expansion: Select another element and be able to blend the damage with the element they are specialized in. (The blended elemental damage types: Scorching steam: ½ fire ½ water, Super-heated smoke: ½ fire ½ air, Magma: ½ fire ½ earth, Sandstorm: ½ earth ½ air, Ice: ½ water ½ earth, and Acid: ½ water ½ air.), Elemental Servant: As Summon Familiar class feature but small elemental of their chosen type, Elemental Penetration: +2 to SR rolls with your chosen elemental type.
Light
Class: Luminomancer (alternate names: Lightbringer, Light Mage, Priest of Light, Diviner)
Flavor: Light Bringers draw their power from channeling positive energy to them.
Bonus Class Skills: Sense Motive, Diplomacy, and Heal
Class Feature List: Positive Energy Channeling: Channel their spells to power divine feats and can turn undead by doing this, select a divine feat, Shadow Defense: gain +2 to save and AC against Shadow school spells, Light Defense: gain +2 to save and AC against Light school spells, Destroy Undead: you can now destroy undead with your Positive Energy Channeling ability.
Mentalism
Class: Mentalist (alternate names: Psion, Mind Mage, Force Master, Illusionist)
Flavor: Mentalists draw their magic from their mind.
Bonus Class Skills: Balance, Escape Artist, and Bluff
Class Feature List: Psionics: No somatic or verbal components, Wild Talent feat, Telekinetic Mastery: force effects ignore DR, Slippery Mind: (as the rogue), Select a psionic feat.
Shadow
Class: Shadowmancer (alternate names: Shadow Mage, Necromancer, Nightbringer, Priest of Darkness)
Flavor: Shadowmancers draw their power from channeling negative energy to them.
Bonus Class Skills: Disguise, Hide and Move Silently
Class Feature List: Negative Energy Channeling: Channel their spells to power divine feats and can rebuke/command undead by doing this, select a divine feat, Light Defense: gain +2 to save and AC against Light school spells, Shadow Defense: select a divine feat, gain +2 to save and AC against Shadow school spells, Command Undead: you can now command undead with your Negative Energy Channeling ability.
Temporalism
Class: Temoralist (alternate names: Portal Master, Summoner, Teleporter, Planar Mage)
Flavor: Temporalists create portals through which all of their magic functions.
Bonus Class Skills: Sleight of Hand, Handle Animal, and Diplomacy
Class Feature List: Planar Servant: celestial or fiendish animal companion (as druid) that can be summoned and dismissed, Portal Cache: access to a portable hole at all times that only he can open and use, Ranged Legerdemain: (as arcane trickster), Planar Affinity: Gain the celestial or fiendish template, Portal Attack: make a melee attack at close range as a standard action.
