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Alternate Ability Score Generation by Rolling

scholz said:
I like this system. I do have one question. It has to do with the very lucky and very unlucky rollers. I ran a game where some people rolled a couple 17+s (nothing below 10) and one sad person rolled one 15 and a bunch of lower than 10 scores. Now, back in the day, we would just play the sad character until he or she died. But in 1st edition low scores were not necessarily so bad. In 3rd ed, I think low scores really suck and big differences in stats can really play a big difference in performance in the game. So what can we do?
We can accept the facts that A) just because another player has a PC with better scores than mine doesn't mean my enjoyment of the game and my own character is diminished, B) Random generation is generally directly at odds with the idea that all PC's will be created equal (if you want randomness you get less equality, if you want more equality then you sacrifice randomness), C) PC's are not generally in competition with each other any more than the players are - having fellow adventurers that are very good at what they do is to your own benefit, D) equality of characters is a non-starter.

Already at 1st level PC's are unequal even if they have identical stats because of the emphasis the DM may design into the campaign world or individual adventures as well as the playing abilities of the players themselves and the attitudes they give to a character. That inequity only increases with level even while the influence of better or worse ability scores DECREASES over time as other factors influencing die rolls vastly increase.
I suggested an experience bonus to the low score person, that drew the ire of the lucky ones. I ended up trying to tailor magic items to the unlucky persons character, but it felt a little odd doing so. I wish there was some sort of balance and randomness.
The greater the randomness and inequity of initial ability scores among PC's the more the DM needs to be willing to step in and allow re-rolls of low characters even if they DO meet pre-determined "minimums" and/or even require re-rolls of inappropriately high-stat characters. So long as the player are made aware BEFORE they begin rolling what you would be doing and WHY.

BTW - ASK the players what they want and why. Rather than simply dictate to them what they will use, show them some options and explain what you think are the benefits/drawbacks of each, followed by the one that you prefer to use. They might just surprise you with their opinions.
 

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Here are some methods I came up with before I posted this thread that had been stewing in the back of my mind for a few weeks.

Method One:

Step 1: Choose a race and assign racial modifiers to appropriate abilities. Elf for example: +2 Dex, -2 Con All standard character generation so far.

Step 2: Choose a class. A class will also give ability modifiers as listed below. Wizard give the character a +2 Int, and a +1 Dex The idea is that a character would go into a field where he has talent and interest and further developed those abilities during their apprentice training. This is along the same thought line as why/how characters get an ability score boost at upper levels in the core rules. These modifiers are only received by starting characters at creation. Multiclassing later give no further ability enhancements.

Step 3: Roll the 3d6 and assign to the abilities in the order they are rolled. I tried this a few times last night and it seemed to work well. You may want to limit any particular score to 18 but I do not think that is necessary. With the distribution of the rolls, inability to assign the rolls to a particular ability, and other racial modifiers you may end up in a rare instance with a half-orc with 22 strength but other abilities like intelligence (-2) and charisma (-2) with very low single digit scores. That could be interesting roleplaying.

Step two gives the characters 3 points they can assign to any ability score. At the DMs option, they can be assigned as the character chooses to a prime, secondary, and perhaps even tertiary ability. No more than +2 should be assigned to any one ability. The default assignments of the 3 points are as follows. This was easy to determine for the "core" classes but a little harder to determine for the classes like druid, ranger, paladin, etc. but here is a shot:

Barbarian: +2 Con, +1 Str, or perhaps +1 Str, +1 Con, and +1 Wis (since lots of their base skills use Wisdom)
Bards: I dislike bards. I just do not see singing during a battle. I am also not a fan of musicals. ;o)
Cleric: +2 Wis, +1 Int
Druid: +2 Wis, +1 Cha (since their animal empathy skills use Charisma)
Figher: +2 Str, +1 Dex or perhaps +1 Str, Dex, and Con
Monk: +2 Wis, +1 Dex or perhaps +1 Wis, Str, and Dex
Paladin: +1 Wis, Str, and Cha
Rogue: +2 Dex, +1 Int
Sorcerer: +2 Cha, +1 Int or perhaps +1 Cha, Int, and Dex or Con. Hmmm, a hard one.
Wizard: +2 Int, +1 Dex

I think that is all of the classes.

Method 2:
Another option that uses part of above but gives very different results works like this. Tally up all modifiers for an ability. You will always roll at least three dice for an ability. Add the sum of the mofidiers to the 3 dice. Our half orc fighter for example has +2 Str Racial and +2 Str Fighter for a total of +4. So roll 7d6 (4 for the modifiers and 3 for normal rolls). Out of the 7 dice, sum up the three highest. This keeps the 18 limit and also tends to get a high score for the character's main attribute ability score.

Now for the half orc's Intelligence (-2 Racial Modifier). Roll 5d6 (2 + 3). BUT now, take the sum of the three lowest rolls.

Here is a quick reference chart for how this works:

Sum of.....Roll this....Sum up
Modifiers...of D6s.....these dice
------------------------------------
+4...........7............3 highest
+3...........6............3 highest
+2...........5............3 highest
+1...........4............3 highest
0.............3............take results
-1...........4............3 lowest
-2...........5............3 lowest
-3...........6............3 lowest
-4...........7............3 lowest*

*(still possible to have an 18 but very unlikely since you would have to roll 7 6s)

Method 3:
And a third variation would be:

Sum of.......Roll this....Sum up
Modifiers....# of D6s...these dice
------------------------------------
+4..........3...............Reroll all 1s, 2s, 3s, and 4s (min score of 15)
+3..........3...............Reroll all 1s, 2s, and 3s (min score of 12)
+2..........3...............Reroll all 1s, and 2s (min score of 9)
+1..........3...............Reroll all 1s (min core of 6)
0............3...............take results
-1...........3...............Reroll all 6s, (max score of 15)
-2...........3...............Reroll all 5s and 6s, (max score of 12)
-3...........3...............Reroll all 4s, 5s, and 6s (max score of 9)
-4...........3...............Reroll all 3s, 4s, 5s, and 6s (max score of 6)

This scheme may be a little too limiting but I like the first two schemes (especially Method 2) and a version of what someone else mentioned...

Method 4:
Player chooses one prime ability for the character. Roll 5d6 drop 2.
Player chooses two secondary abilities. Roll 4d6 drop 1.
Roll remaining abilities 3d6.
Apply racial modifiers.
 
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In my current campaign all characters were created using the Elite Array (8, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15).

I chose that as my first 3e campaign had too big a power gap between the lucky and the unlucky rollers, using the 4d6 (drop lowest) method.

To add some kind of randomness while staying balanced, I've thought about letting the players distribute 3 points randomly between their stats after they've assigned the Elite Array numbers. (Roll a d6 three times; a 1 adds 1 to Str, a 2 adds 1 to Dex, etc.)

This way it's possible for a fighter who's placed his 15 in strenght to get it increased to an 18 if he's very lucky and rolls three 1's, but he's more likely to get the three points spread out between his abilities.
 

lyonstudio said:
Where at? Your site did not seem to have any links. I may want to collect some of these and post them on my site with some stat analysis of them. Would you be willing to help out?

If anyone else wants the spreadsheet I used to calculate these, I've got it back up on my website.
 


Some more methods.

1D6 to determine your modifier, 1 & 2 being -2 and -1 respectively, 3, 4, 5, and 6, being +1, +2, +3, and +4 respectively.
Roll a percentile to determine high or low (ex. 4 = +2 = 14 & 15. High would mean the stat is 15.) For 18s (6), high or low determines if you get a bonus or a negative in one of your non-18 stats. You assign everything after calculations are made wherever you want. Rolls with scores no higher than 13, or with a total ability modifier under (and including) +3 are rerolls.


4D6 drop, assign where you want, then remove one point from up to two scores, placing them in any other score(s) with a max of 18. Can't pull from the same score twice, but you can add to one twice.


All stats start at 13. Roll 1D6 to determine the bonus, then roll another to determine the penalty. This makes a range of 8-18.
 
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While I usually use 4d6 drop lowest or distribute 84 points as you choose (max 18 before modifiers), I have also used the old UA method as well- all work.

One I've been thinking about is 3d6 + 1d12 "Hero" dice. You roll the 3d6 as normal and arrange them to suit. Then you roll your Hero die and the result is how many bonus points you have to add to stats (max 18 before modifiers).

A low-level point-buy + Hero die could also work.
 

Oh dying Jesus! Why can't you people just do what I do and assign numbers based upon personal preference?

Because some of us like the many elements the randomness of dice introduces.

If I'm a wizard, there's no reason in the world to have a strength over 9.

I can think of a few: planning to multiclass into a martial class; a character background of being a big, strong ox...with a studious nature; playing a martial arcanist of some kind; prereq for some PrCl.
I refuse to believe that I'm the only one who does things this way!

You're not- that's why point-buy systems arose in the first place.
 

you could do 4d6, reroll 1s and 2s (and 3s the first time they are dropped)
then let them place where they want


THEN THROW MORE AND/OR TOUGHER MONSTERS AT THEM!!!
mwhahahahahaha!

it makes things...epic? heroic?

plus this way you play those who live and no one gets left out, or if they do theyre death scene if either terrifiying OR HORRIBLY HYSTERICAL!
 

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