Alternative to XP expenditure?
- Thread starter Sorren
- Start date
VirgilCaine
First Post
You could just have them double the other two costs--GP and time. Found this somewhere else, can't remember where.
Li Shenron
Legend
Sorren said:
I think the easiest two ways to do this are:
(1) As suggested by Markn, keep track of the total Xp spent and sometimes they result in a level less than the party. The effect is the same as normal rules, but you're not completely dumping Xp in a way.
(2) Replace the Xp cost with Gp cost. Somewhere it was suggested a rate of 25 Gp / 1 Xp which is very high, because for crafting a magic item it makes it 50% more expensive than to buy it! Unless you want a very low-magic campaign, you should use a lower rate.
I like the suggestion of aging, although that is going to be more difficult to handle.
Finally, for my upcoming campaign (next year) I have already decided to be very free for both treasure and experience, IOW money and xp will mean nothing. It's not easy to come up with a replacement to keep magic item creation and casting some spells costly.
For item creation I have other ideas I won't mention here (because they will NOT work unless you also ditch money completely), but they seem to solve the problems. For spells, the idea which is currently on my mind is
(3) For each Xp required to cast the spell, you have to way 1 day before casting the same spell again.
The rate 1 Day / 1 Xp is extremely high for high-level spells. For example, you would need to wait 5000 days (more than 13 years) between casting 2 Wishes. This seems unbelievably long of course, in fact I will probably change it to a lower rate. On the other hand, it would be interesting to stretch in-game time that far, because usually the players have the feeling that their characters don't really age, that they go from lv 1 to lv 20 in a matter of a couple of years.
Sorren
First Post
Here's what I've come up with so far:
Every character has an XP reserve equal to his level x 100. These XPs are only used to fuel spells or powers that require XPs or item creation. You permanently lose 1 hit point every time you exceed this amount. For example, a 5th level character has 500xp reserved just for item creation or for spells that require XPs. If he spends 1,000 XPs, he permanently loses 2 hit points.
Spells that Cost Experience:
Nearly every magical spell has a "power component" (see Unearthed Arcana pg.141-149) that can be used to aid in casting the spell. If you have the power component, the XP cost of casting is reduced by 1/5th the cost of the component. Any additional XP required must come from the caster's reserve, possibly causing a loss of hit points. Additional power components may further reduce the cost.
A caster knows the power component for a specific spell if he succeeds on a Spellcraft check, DC:20 + the spell's level.
In addition, if you have the spell’s power component, and the spell doesn’t normally require an xp expenditure, the component may allow you to add a metamagic effect upon casting. If the spell does require an xp expenditure, you may elect to pay it anyway and gain the effects of the metamagic feat. The metamagic effect gained depends on the spell and power component. (See Unearthed Arcana pg.141-149)
Psionic Powers that cost Experience:
Psionic powers that require XPs are handled a bit differently. The psion may purchase a crystal equal in value to the level of the power + manifester level x 100. Over the course of an hour per level of the power, the psion attunes the crystal to the power he plans to use. Once created, the crystal houses a number of XP equal to the power's level x 100 that can only be used to fuel that particular power. Once drained of its stored XP, the crystal shatters and becomes useless. Any additional XP required must come from additional focus crystals or the manifester's reserve, possibly causing a loss of hit points.
Focus crystals created for powers that do not require an XP expenditure have no effect unless the power it is attuned to is required to create a psionic item. See below.
Magical Item Creation:
Creating magical items require specific spells to be cast. For every required spell for which the item requires, the caster may elect to use a single power component. For each component used, the xp cost of creating the item is reduced by 1/5 the total cost of all components.
For example, if a caster wanted to create a Cloak of Arachnida, he has to cast the spells Web and Spider Climb and it would cost 7,000gp and 560xp. However, if the caster gathers the power components for both spells, which cost 1,550gp total, the cost then becomes 8,550gp and 336xp.
If a magic item doesn’t require a specific spell to be cast, the caster can create a general power component. The cost of the component equals 1/10th the base price of the item and stores a number of XPs equal to 1/50th the base price of the item. The components may take any form, from elaborate alchemical setups to a glass rod carved with runes. XPs stored in additional power components stack. Items that require spells to be cast cannot be created with the aid of a general power component. Only power components associated with the necessary spells can be used.
The Artificer class' craft reserve functions normally. It provides bonus XPs that can only be used during item creation.
Psionic Item Creation
In the same way magic items require the casting of specific spells, psionic items require the manifestion of specific powers. For each power required to create the item, the manifester may utilize a single focus crystal attuned to that power. Focus crystals created for powers that do not require an XP expenditure have no effect unless the power it is attuned to is required to create a psionic item.
Determine the total number of XPs stored in the focus crystals. These XPs can be deducted from the total XP cost of creating the item.
For example, if a psion wanted to create a Comprehension Crystal Anchor it would cost him 12,000gp and 960xp. However, if he gathered a focus crystal for the two required powers, brain lock and psionic contingency, the cost would become 13,300gp and 160xp.
If a psionic item doesn’t require a specific power to be manifested, the manifester can create a general focus crystal. The cost of the crystal equals 1/10th the base price of the item and stores a number of XPs equal to 1/50th the base price of the item. XPs stored in additional focus crystals stack. Items that require powers to be manifested cannot be created with the aid of a general focus crystal. Only crystals attuned to the necessary powers can be used.
Every character has an XP reserve equal to his level x 100. These XPs are only used to fuel spells or powers that require XPs or item creation. You permanently lose 1 hit point every time you exceed this amount. For example, a 5th level character has 500xp reserved just for item creation or for spells that require XPs. If he spends 1,000 XPs, he permanently loses 2 hit points.
Spells that Cost Experience:
Nearly every magical spell has a "power component" (see Unearthed Arcana pg.141-149) that can be used to aid in casting the spell. If you have the power component, the XP cost of casting is reduced by 1/5th the cost of the component. Any additional XP required must come from the caster's reserve, possibly causing a loss of hit points. Additional power components may further reduce the cost.
A caster knows the power component for a specific spell if he succeeds on a Spellcraft check, DC:20 + the spell's level.
In addition, if you have the spell’s power component, and the spell doesn’t normally require an xp expenditure, the component may allow you to add a metamagic effect upon casting. If the spell does require an xp expenditure, you may elect to pay it anyway and gain the effects of the metamagic feat. The metamagic effect gained depends on the spell and power component. (See Unearthed Arcana pg.141-149)
Psionic Powers that cost Experience:
Psionic powers that require XPs are handled a bit differently. The psion may purchase a crystal equal in value to the level of the power + manifester level x 100. Over the course of an hour per level of the power, the psion attunes the crystal to the power he plans to use. Once created, the crystal houses a number of XP equal to the power's level x 100 that can only be used to fuel that particular power. Once drained of its stored XP, the crystal shatters and becomes useless. Any additional XP required must come from additional focus crystals or the manifester's reserve, possibly causing a loss of hit points.
Focus crystals created for powers that do not require an XP expenditure have no effect unless the power it is attuned to is required to create a psionic item. See below.
Magical Item Creation:
Creating magical items require specific spells to be cast. For every required spell for which the item requires, the caster may elect to use a single power component. For each component used, the xp cost of creating the item is reduced by 1/5 the total cost of all components.
For example, if a caster wanted to create a Cloak of Arachnida, he has to cast the spells Web and Spider Climb and it would cost 7,000gp and 560xp. However, if the caster gathers the power components for both spells, which cost 1,550gp total, the cost then becomes 8,550gp and 336xp.
If a magic item doesn’t require a specific spell to be cast, the caster can create a general power component. The cost of the component equals 1/10th the base price of the item and stores a number of XPs equal to 1/50th the base price of the item. The components may take any form, from elaborate alchemical setups to a glass rod carved with runes. XPs stored in additional power components stack. Items that require spells to be cast cannot be created with the aid of a general power component. Only power components associated with the necessary spells can be used.
The Artificer class' craft reserve functions normally. It provides bonus XPs that can only be used during item creation.
Psionic Item Creation
In the same way magic items require the casting of specific spells, psionic items require the manifestion of specific powers. For each power required to create the item, the manifester may utilize a single focus crystal attuned to that power. Focus crystals created for powers that do not require an XP expenditure have no effect unless the power it is attuned to is required to create a psionic item.
Determine the total number of XPs stored in the focus crystals. These XPs can be deducted from the total XP cost of creating the item.
For example, if a psion wanted to create a Comprehension Crystal Anchor it would cost him 12,000gp and 960xp. However, if he gathered a focus crystal for the two required powers, brain lock and psionic contingency, the cost would become 13,300gp and 160xp.
If a psionic item doesn’t require a specific power to be manifested, the manifester can create a general focus crystal. The cost of the crystal equals 1/10th the base price of the item and stores a number of XPs equal to 1/50th the base price of the item. XPs stored in additional focus crystals stack. Items that require powers to be manifested cannot be created with the aid of a general focus crystal. Only crystals attuned to the necessary powers can be used.
Last edited:
Khur
Sympathy for the Devil
If really you want to ditch XP and you want a cool story hitch, combine some of your ideas and the ideas of others here. Your ideas above still have XP costs, which isn't your true goal, right? For example:
Magic Item Creation
Any item requires power components (for the requisite spells or "general" components) with a value of five times the experience point cost of the item. The item-creation process consumes all these components.
This essentially works out to exchanging money for XP (5 gp to 1 XP), if you allow the artificer to actually buy components. This system works better if components are instead treated as treasure and/or cost double their base value when they can be purchased (10 gp to 1 XP). This latter point makes it more desirable to find the item (5 gp worth of treasure per XP) than to buy the item (10 gp per XP). In either case, this method doesn't have the goofy side effect of costing more to manufacture and item than it would to buy it outright.
You may want to give a little "extra" treasure above the norm, if power components take a prominent role in the game. Or ignore all the book work altogether and let the heroes go after what they need insofar as power components and have the slain creature's treasure just be a bonus.
You may also want to define components for items without spell prerequisites or at least define a set of generally useful power components (dragon parts work well because they are hard won and may create a lot of enemies--especially if it's well-known in arcane circles that a certain item cannot be created without a dragon heart).
Take it a seriously as you want. Fun is more important than "balance" at the gaming table, and having the player characters' desires fuel their need to adventure makes your job as DM a lot easier. Your storytelling episodes can be punctuated by simple monster hunts and expeditions for components. This is actually a very enjoyable way to play the game and tends to keep a wide variety of player tastes satisfied. Thereby, the above system actually serves to reinforce the game, instead of controlling it in a contrived way.=
Thanks for this thread. Great ideas.
Magic Item Creation
Any item requires power components (for the requisite spells or "general" components) with a value of five times the experience point cost of the item. The item-creation process consumes all these components.
This essentially works out to exchanging money for XP (5 gp to 1 XP), if you allow the artificer to actually buy components. This system works better if components are instead treated as treasure and/or cost double their base value when they can be purchased (10 gp to 1 XP). This latter point makes it more desirable to find the item (5 gp worth of treasure per XP) than to buy the item (10 gp per XP). In either case, this method doesn't have the goofy side effect of costing more to manufacture and item than it would to buy it outright.
You may want to give a little "extra" treasure above the norm, if power components take a prominent role in the game. Or ignore all the book work altogether and let the heroes go after what they need insofar as power components and have the slain creature's treasure just be a bonus.
You may also want to define components for items without spell prerequisites or at least define a set of generally useful power components (dragon parts work well because they are hard won and may create a lot of enemies--especially if it's well-known in arcane circles that a certain item cannot be created without a dragon heart).
Take it a seriously as you want. Fun is more important than "balance" at the gaming table, and having the player characters' desires fuel their need to adventure makes your job as DM a lot easier. Your storytelling episodes can be punctuated by simple monster hunts and expeditions for components. This is actually a very enjoyable way to play the game and tends to keep a wide variety of player tastes satisfied. Thereby, the above system actually serves to reinforce the game, instead of controlling it in a contrived way.=
Thanks for this thread. Great ideas.
Li Shenron
Legend
Sorren said:
I think I shouldn't post more about the xp-less system I intend to use next, because it works in conjunction with having no money or treasure whatsoever, and it will only bring confusion to this thread
der_kluge
Adventurer
Artificer's Handbook has about 5 methods of doing item creation without spending XP.
My last campaign I removed the concept of XP. It's not hard to do. For the spells that required it, I just didn't require it. I removed permanency since I don't like it anyway.
Wish was the only one that really gave me a problem. Any summoning type spell like summon planar ally (I think it costs XP) I just indicated in my house rules that you had to make a bargain with said creature. For clerics utilizing such spells, they have to appropriately tithe, or risk losing clerical powers. Wish summons an Efreeti or Djinni who then fulfills the terms of the wish.
My last campaign I removed the concept of XP. It's not hard to do. For the spells that required it, I just didn't require it. I removed permanency since I don't like it anyway.
Wish was the only one that really gave me a problem. Any summoning type spell like summon planar ally (I think it costs XP) I just indicated in my house rules that you had to make a bargain with said creature. For clerics utilizing such spells, they have to appropriately tithe, or risk losing clerical powers. Wish summons an Efreeti or Djinni who then fulfills the terms of the wish.
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