D&D General Alternatives to lich or vampire?

[der_kluge]

I'm not sure how far you wish to go with that storyline, but it instantly have me some thoughts.

Doing whatever it takes to get his house in order... Sounds like he needs a business partner or investor. You know, someone who for a small favour could help out with some trade deals. Keep hold of this package until a certain person comes looking for it, no questions asked. Maybe house some guests, that sort of thing.

Oh, you need more time? Well, this amulet/ritual/brand will provide you with all the time you want/turn you into a minor kind of lich/infuse you with some level of immorality. There's just one catch...

There is a rent to pay for this new life. A rent paid in souls.

Basically, the reason for becoming undead sounds like a perfect reason for a devil to offer a pact. A minor kind of lichdom could work, but if you have trouble finding a suitable kind of undead there may be other ways for a devil to help out.

Hmm, that's an interesting take on it. That gives the paladin son a chance to actually redeem him, not just kill him and bury him. I'll have to think about that some more.

It's all the more interesting when you consider I'm planning on having the PC compete in a joust against his own brother - a brother who might also be receiving some unnatural gifts.

 

[Bacon Bits]

So, IMC, I want to make a noble lord undead. As in, part of his backstory involves him wanting to become undead, and he pays a sum of money, and then does that.

What are my options? Lich, it seems, is limited to just arcane casters and also WAY too high of a CR to be useful. Vampire could certainly work here, but also comes with a decent amount of baggage and since I'd like to be able to use this guy in the middle of the day, the whole sunlight vulnerability thing is a real bummer.

What else is there?

Wight is the lowest CR "smart" undead. They're still mostly interested in killing you, but they're willing to stop and come up with a plan first and will use weapons and armor like a sensible person. 5e doesn't do a super good job of delineating the undead, IMO. There's vampires, liches, and then everything else kind of feels lumped together. It's easy to confuse Ghouls, Ghasts, and Wights, but Wights are a really good generic undead monster frame if you don't want them to be incorporeal or mindless or completely and totally consumed by hunger for flesh. I undo the 5e nerf and restore their ability to create an unlimited number of wights rather than up to a dozen zombies, but that's up to you. They're basically the undead version of hobgoblins.

Personally, I wouldn't make this guy anything totally cribbed from the Monster Manual. I'd make him Wight-like in appearance and then customize everything about it. Something with GiffyGlyphs or the Action Oriented Monster (YouTube link) design.

 

[Li Shenron]

I would rather make it unique than trying to shoehorn an inappropriate monsters.

First idea coming to my mind was to start from Lich stats, but remove all spells. Normally a proper Lich is a powerful spellcaster who turns itself into an undead, if this noble paid for undeath, presumably he paid said powerful spellcaster to somehow impart a condition similar to lichdom to him. No idea what CR would a spell-less Lich have however, but I would also adjust his HP down at least.

 

[Oofta]

Sure it has to be the father that's seeking immortality? Might make more sense to make it the paladins mummy.

I crack me up sometimes.

 

[Wasteland Knight]

My experience is 3.0/3.5/PF1e, so I have no idea how this would work if you play 5e. But here's what I'd probably do for this unique NPC:

1. Build the NPC as he was in life before becoming undead
2. Convert to undead as the pertinent ruleset lay it out (HD, and hp are a little different)
3. Apply pertinent undead traits
4. Decide how the NPC will look after death (skeletal, leathery, rotten corpse, just dead, etc)
5. Add any special abilities
6. Come up with a backstory about how the undead process came about

 

[jgsugden]

You don't have to go undead, here. If he wants to be immortal, there are other angles. If you go this route, an undead nature could be a mislead.

1.) The Picture of Dorian Gray.
2.) An item that grants him access to Magic Jar that he uses on an immortal creature.
3.) Warlock Pact (Immortality could be an invocation) or other deals with powers.
4.) Stealing immortality from immortal creatures such as angels, devils or demons.
5.) A magic weapon that drains life (and youth) and transfers it to him.
6.) A Lovecraftian creature is used to steal life from others and transfer it to him. Could go with a Warlock pact theme.

 

[Flamestrike]

You don't have to sit down and play D&D, you can watch the NBA playoffs instead...

Obviously you dont have to give PC levels, it's just a suggestion to make a ghost or ghoul more engaging.

Id rather give it unique monster abilities to make it engaging.

But maybe that's just me.

Im a bit of a convert to the argument that 'PCs get PC stuff, NPCs and monsters do their own thing.'

 

[jayoungr]

I'll give Mummy lord another look. The CR is pretty high, but I could probably work with that. I wanted to avoid creating something brand new, since it just felt like I was overlooking something simple here. Ghostly possession is an interesting idea here, but the noble's goals in undeath are far more complex (to see his family's stature rise to greatness), so thematically it doesn't really work.

I'd say mummy lord works really well thematically with that story. You could always nerf it a bit if the CR is too high--take away the legendary actions, for example.

 

[TwoSix]

Id rather give it unique monster abilities to make it engaging.

But maybe that's just me.

Im a bit of a convert to the argument that 'PCs get PC stuff, NPCs and monsters do their own thing.'

I'm starting to move out of that and into "Let's just give PCs their own special stuff" too. Which isn't really a system, but just more fun.

 

[akr71]

I really like @Al2O3 's idea of an amulet that makes the father a minor lich/undead of some sort. I also agree with others up-thread that you don't really need a stat block of any kind. If party isn't going to fight him, then his abilities are whatever you say they are.

If I absolutely had to have a stat block, I would use the Noble, change it to Undead and give appropriate resistance and immunity and be done. Then you can work out the properties of the amulet that gives him undeath, whether that's feeding it souls, an insatiable thirst for humanoid blood, or whatever.