Am I mean?

[ST]

My issue is talking to the group and just saying "Hey, here's X idea I had to kick things off, does that sound cool" could go a long way to ensuring everybody has a good time. If I was pitched "a Dirty Dozen kind of deal where maybe my guy is a criminal, maybe they got the wrong guy, but we're given this suicide mission to clear ourselves and square things", I can think of a couple of ideas off the bat that I'd enjoy playing. But if I didn't know that going in, it might really throw me off.

I question that, assuming you want to do it, there's much value in it being a surprise. It might not be a good surprise. And you should feel comfortable enough in your campaign and the group that people are going to try to have a good time and get into it, and they don't need a big sudden surprise (that could potentially be interpreted as a bait and switch and just be kind of a mess, or not, but it's a risk).

 

[ST]

What better way to find out how much they got got in them, then to give them something tough from the start.

I'm not trying to be difficult, but why? I mean, I think maybe I'm just coming at it from different base assumptions.

Your argument seems to be that they'll learn "better", if right as they're dropped into the basics of roleplaying, they face a bunch of adversity? I know you have a reason why you feel that way, I'd be interested to hear it to try to better understand your viewpoint.

 

[S'mon]

It doesn't have "badboy" vibe to it, it's just railroading. It's just "meh".

Exactly, yup.

If you want to start the PCs out in the gladiator pits, fine. They can start in a 'tough' environment - what matters is that the PCs get to make meaningful choices that influence events and outcomes, and are not railroaded down a particular plotline.

 

[nedjer]

My issue is talking to the group and just saying "Hey, here's X idea I had to kick things off, does that sound cool" could go a long way to ensuring everybody has a good time. If I was pitched "a Dirty Dozen kind of deal where maybe my guy is a criminal, maybe they got the wrong guy, but we're given this suicide mission to clear ourselves and square things", I can think of a couple of ideas off the bat that I'd enjoy playing. But if I didn't know that going in, it might really throw me off.

I question that, assuming you want to do it, there's much value in it being a surprise. It might not be a good surprise. And you should feel comfortable enough in your campaign and the group that people are going to try to have a good time and get into it, and they don't need a big sudden surprise (that could potentially be interpreted as a bait and switch and just be kind of a mess, or not, but it's a risk).

That's why I have a chat about 'cut scenes' before getting going - and keep it very general. If they know the exact timing and too much of the type of difficulty they're going to run into, the 'cut scene' loses it's impact, including the on-going edge to play from players being aware that things could suddenly go pear-shaped.

Also, while describing this type of railroading as 'cut scene', there's no need to lock it down. If they choose to go into the harbour area at night while navy ships are in port there's no harm in a general warning from an NPC about, "watch out for the drunks on a Saturday night. It gets pretty wild down there, especially if the ships' crews are out drinking." So 'you have been warned' (at an earlier stage) is an option; and if they do insist on beating up a press gang, they can always be picked up in the morning after over-celebrating their escape the night before.

That way, the PCs can still operate some of the railroad junctions or get off the rails entirely.

Though, when running this scene, (after telling them about the drunks and the navy ships), it was the seemingly 'nice but dim' barmaid who helped them hide from the press gangs who woke the party up for a spot of early morning organ harvesting. And yes, the players actually screamed when she started taking 'tissue samples' to show to the Lich.

Probably the cheery, matter-of-fact, "a girl's got to make a living," that hit the switches.

And yes it was simply Hansel and Gretel.

 

[nnms]

It's not adversity. It's not "seeing what they got". It's a choice between:

1) staying in prison (or perhaps execution) and having the game basically end
2) agreeing to the DM's story

This is a terrible thing to do to any player and a reprehensible thing to do to a new player.

 

[Odhanan]

Exactly, yup.

If you want to start the PCs out in the gladiator pits, fine. They can start in a 'tough' environment - what matters is that the PCs get to make meaningful choices that influence events and outcomes, and are not railroaded down a particular plotline.

Absolutely. Hence my suggestion to start the game when they are prisoners (with the players knowing this when they are creating their characters prior to the game), and then play the part where they escape, which makes their choices meaningful, instead of railroading them being caught with no other alternative than them being taken prisoners, then the whole railroad towards the jail, no matter how long that takes... all this stuff is time wasted as far as the players' choices are concerned. This whole time, they are basically passive viewers of the GM's "story". And that is bad. For most players anyway.

 

[LostSoul]

What you should do is write a script, with lines for the PCs and everything, and hand each player a copy. At points in the script there will be "stage directions" like "UNGAR ROLLS INTIMIDATE". You should ignore the result of the roll, because that might invalidate the rest of the script; in your DM's copy you will have a note of the actual result.

The players get to deliver the lines you've written for them in any way they want! Think of all the creative possibilities! They'll be like actors playing through a movie.

Only hand out one page at a time to increase tension!

D&D at its finest.

 

[hedgeknight]

Oh Gawd. I've had several DM's pull this crap on me at various points. I wasn't new to the game, but new to the campaign(s). I rolled up my character, and then promptly had him emasculated and have all his stuff taken away . . . often any abilities and powers were nerfed too. Each time this happened, it wasn't the whole party getting beaten and jailed, just my character to "introduce" him to the story. This ever happens to me again, I walk.

I realize what you are planning is somewhat different that what happened to me several times, but I do think it's a terrible idea. You want to do this to newbs on their first game? Mean? No. Bad idea? Yes. Good luck keeping them around to game some more.

My thoughts exactly! Of the zillions of fun, interesting, captivating ways to kick-off a campaign or adventure, this is a bad idea and could spell ruin for your game and for the players. If it was a group of players you had gamed with for a few years, then I'd say have it, but for a bunch of new players? No way in heck would I do this.

 

[Ourph]

Start the campaign with the PCs at the entrance to the dungeon with a half-finished (and possibly inaccurate) map in their hands. What they do from there should be totally up to them.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Im going with buddhafrog. I'll post in the future how it turns out.
I know the PCs, they will think its "awesome". Yeah I may be mean, but I think it will help the group in the long run. What better way to find out how much they got got in them, then to give them something tough from the start.

Now yer talkin. Separate the men from the boys right away.


Let us all know when you get a scenario ready for your second group.