Am I the only one who found Dragon Age 2 superior to Origins?

[Mal Malenkirk]

I came in to DA2 wary because of all the warnings but after playing through the game twice (one of the very few game I wanted to get my 100% achievement!) I have to say I don't get the fury.

Worse

The only real real flaw of the game is the map recycling. I guess they wanted to save a few months of game development but it's pretty jarring when you recognize the same cave being used over and over. Ugh.

Same

Tactics: I've heard people complain there were less tactics in DA2. WTF are they talking about? If anything there is a little bit more tactics this time around due to the combos and additional ways to manage agro but otherwise it's the same damn thing; pause, issue orders, manage your talents, stamina/mana and health... Same thing.

Better

Story: If you prefer epic and save the world stories, then yeah, Origins is better.

But let's face it, Mass Effect 1 & 2, KOTOR 1 & 2 and Dragon Age Origins pretty much have all the same story frame. Ancient evil threatens world, heroes gather allies all over the game world, final heroic show down. Boom.

By the first hour in DA:Origins I knew I was gonna have the same basic story as the last two Mass Effects. It was still good; great game world, solid characters, a few memorable story arc. It was well done. I better be; bioware had done it 4 time before (maybe more, I don't really remember baldur's gate)!

Dragon Age 2 surprised me because here at last was a different story frame. A refugee and his family come to a new city and tries to carve himself a place in this world. Sure, that story too has been told countless times (haven't they all?) but never in a bioware game and rarely in a video game.

So right from the start I was better disposed toward the story simply for the change of pace. Then there were many enjoyable or even moving subplot (I got really pissed at the villain in 'all that remains' or that some jackass templar was taking my sister away in act 2, for example...).

All in all, I vastly prefered the story of DA2. It felt more personal and involving.

Characters: DA:O's character were solid but DA2's are better.

On their own value, there were more winners in DA2 for my money. I only really liked Allistair in DA:O. I was okay with Zevran and Leliana, was indifferent to most and occasioanally annoyed or amused by Morrigan's uber-b*tch persona.

In DA2, Varric was gold, Merril was endearing and funny, Isabela was frequently hilarious, Aveline was the best 'paladin' PC I've seen in a long while... Anders was the only one grating my nerves at time.

More importantly, they had more character development over the game, whether romanced or not, IMO. Character development in companions existed in DAO but was more limited.

There was also a better sense that these people were your friends. Better yet, they were involved with each other. It was nice to see Isabela's helping Fenris keep his home or teaching Merril's how to play cards. Their relationship with you evolved much more during the game than other bioware's character, and this was true even if un-romanced. Better yet, their relationship toward each other evolved. Allistair and Morrigan just snipe at each other for the whole game while Isabela and Aveline starts that way but learn to respect each other as time goes by. Much more satisfying.

Companion Armor: I get it, some people really like to micromanage and having control of the companions armor taken away from them grated.

Me? I loved it. Aveline is not a barbie doll; she's the captain of the guard! She therefore wears a guard's armor. She won't don a reaver's armor with a skull helmet just because it has a better critical hit bonus! What your companions wear tell a part of the story of who they are. I was happy with that decision.

Anyway, that was my take. I am eager for DA3! What did you think?

 

[Grydan]

I quite enjoyed DA2, and do look forward to DA3, whenever that happens.

I'm also a fan, for similar reasons, of the companion armour, though I could see room for a system that combines it with the option to micromanage (for those who get a kick out of it). I tend to stick the rest of my party on auto-level, because I find it annoying to deal with.

That said, for me, recycled maps were hardly the only flaw.

SPOILERS AHEAD! Do NOT read if you haven't played the game.









I'm not kidding here, folks. Spoilers ahead.









Seriously. Spoilers.








Anyways, my main issues with the game were these:

1. False options. While I loved the dialogue system, with the icons to indicate the general thrust of the response, taking the romantic options with Aveline was an exercise in frustration. Okay, I understand the character is supposed to have a bit of a blind spot in that area, and it's amusing that when you flirt with her she completely misses it. Except the game keeps giving you the option, all the way through her plot-enforced romance. Even if you think your character and her are a perfect match, or at least a more interesting one than who she ends up with, you're out of luck. Once her romance is cemented, THEN she asks whether the two of you would ever have worked as a couple. You don't get the option of saying yes. Thanks for wasting my time, Bioware.

Is it realistic to include the idea that not every character will respond positively to romantic overtures? Sure. But if it's not going to really be an option, shut it down sooner so you can move on.

2. Lack of options. Knowing something's coming, yet your character remaining blissfully unaware, regardless of what options you take. Sorry folks, your mother is doomed. Regardless of what choices you make, she's dying. There's even a scene that feels like it should have been a choice (Wait until dark to try and track her down, or try and do it despite the crowds during the day... sure wish you'd tried a few hours earlier, right? Well too bad, that's not an option). It's not like the sibling death at the beginning, where it's over before they had a chance... they put you on the trail but never let you catch up. There's no path you can take where you catch the killer before he strikes. Frustrating the first time (where I thought I might have options that saved her), more frustrating if you plan on doing multiple playthroughs.

3. The story just falls apart in the final act. Regardless of what approach you've taken (pro-Templar, pro-Mage, balanced/neutral), everyone's actions are the same... even if they make no sense. You've been publicly outspoken against the Templars and in favour of the mages from the day you arrived in the city, frequently either secretly or openly aiding them? Too bad, the mages are going to kidnap your sister and force you to slaughter them by the dozen. All because they think you might side with the Templars.

4. Similar to the above two, Merrill's story is frustrating. Regardless of whether she's a casual friend, or hates your guts, or thinks you're the most wonderful person to ever exist, she's not going to change her mind. Her story only has one end point, and it's a tragedy that forces you to slaughter a bunch of innocents. Gee thanks, Bioware.

5. Minor one. The teaser of high-level play at the start is a clever bit of storytelling. It's frustrating, however, that the weaponry used there (and in the character select screen) isn't what you're going to be using at the level you finally assemble the armour. The staff, if I recall correctly, is a very low level one. There aren't two daggers that look like that, only one (and another that's similar, but not the same). The sword... I can't recall, but I don't think it's anywhere near the best weapon you can have at that point.

5. From the way they talked about the game beforehand, I really was expecting my choices to have a bigger impact throughout the game. There's an option to make a major donation to the refugees in one of the early acts. There's no repercussions to this act. Things aren't any better or any worse for them based on your action. For a company that specializes in making games where your choices impact your character and their companions, I was really expecting a better job of letting the character's choices affect the world.

7. I played the X-Box 360 version, and while I'm not sure if this applied to the PC and PS3 versions, it was rather buggy. Merrill's cutscenes played out of order (which was really confusing), you couldn't earn the Achievements for the DLC about the prince, and there was at least one mission that you couldn't do at all. You could take it, but going to where it was supposed to happen you'd find one NPC standing around who couldn't be interacted with, and nothing else. I understand that at least some of this was later fixed via patches, but it was rather frustrating on my original playthrough.



I still love BioWare games, and will grab DA3... I just hope they learned a lot from their mistakes here, and make it a better game. The ending strongly hints at a storyline that will unite the Champion with (if they survived DA:O) the Hero. That could be fun (though I expect they'll be late additions to the party of a brand new lead character).

I think for me, a lot of the problems come down to this: they've come closer than a lot of other companies to giving you the narrative depth of a good tabletop campaign, but the limitations of the medium (and their budget of time and money) mean you keep butting up against the walls of "you can't turn left here, despite it looking like you can" that are everywhere in a prescripted scenario.

 

[Quickleaf]

This probably belongs in the Media forum...

[MENTION=834]Mal Malenkirk[/MENTION] If you want an out of the box RPG you owe it to yourself to pick up Witcher 2, if you haven't already. IMO blows Dragon Age 1 and 2 out of the water.

I pretty much agree with everything you said about the story, particularly the awful final act [MENTION=79401]Grydan[/MENTION]. However I don't recall having to kill a bunch of innocents at the end of Merrill's storyline; think I vouched for her after coming out of cave and the elves left in peace.

Oh and how many freakin demon-possessed mages does one game need? At times I felt I was being hit by the "mage moral dilemma" stick; there really wasn't much depth to it.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

I know I will be lampooned for this, but I do not consider myself a Bioware fan anymore. I liked Mass Effect 1, though I didn't think it was a good enough game to purchase the sequel. I was annoyed by the fact that the game tried so hard to force me into a romantic plot line. I liked the romance option in Baldur's Gate 2, but I didn't like how it was crammed down my throat in Mass Effect.

I tried Dragon Age: Origins and found it very boring. I played as a dwarf, and found the first few hours of the game to be amazing and the plot really drew me in. However, after the game's first huge battle it quickly went downhill and became a boring grind fest. I was hired by one village to go wipe out some bandits. But the bandits weren't on another map, they were literally right outside of the settlement. I tried to ambush the bandits, getting their attention, then retreating into the settlement where I figured the local militia would help me out. Instead the folk and guards just sat and watched as four bandits and I ran around the town like some Benny Hill skit. I also had trouble protecting my spellcasters, and had little control over how to align my frontline fighters to protect the casters. Later, I walked through an elven forest where I was attacked every few feet by werewolves and shameless, blatant rip-offs of Treebeard from Lord of the Rings. I also didn't like the blatant sexualization of my female party members, as I felt it catered to 15 year old boys. Now I like my sex and all, but these characters seemed two-dimensional. I removed my Dragon Age game from my computer, downloaded DosBox and the old Forgotten Realms Unlimited Adventure game, and have been playing fan mods of TSR modules without looking back. I'm having a blast and the tactical options given to me in the turn-based game are a lot of fun.

Dragon Age Origins isn't a game you enjoy playing as much as it is a game you suffer through so you can watch great animation and read about a fantastic story. You can lessen much of the pain, educate yourself, and enjoy more of such benefits by reading a good book.

So if DA2 improved on any of my above complaints on Dragon Age Origins, then yes, you have a better game. As for me, I've learned an important lesson and have stopped purchasing Bioware products.

As an aside, I will agree with Quickleaf. The Witcher is a fantastic CRPG and I enjoyed the combat, puzzles, and plot. I heard some of the puzzles were made easier and combat options reduced in the Witcher 2. I hope not, but I enjoyed the first Witcher so much I will definitely be purchasing the second.

 

[Grydan]

Hmmm, maybe there is a peaceful way out of the end of Merrill's storyline, but I'm not sure how you'd get it. The elves weren't particularly inclined to listen to me, as we'd just walked out of a cave without their beloved leader, couldn't explain why, and were covered in blood. Which is somewhat amusing, as it's a bit of a running joke about the series that your characters are constantly coated head to toe in blood and NPCs never mention it.

Which in itself is a bit odd, as Darkspawn blood is supposed to be corrupting, and rapidly so. It should be a bit of problem that it's in my eyes, and by my mouth...

 

[amerigoV]

On Bioware's Plots: Most of their products are formulaic - but its a formula that works (its not like Hollywood does not do this, and we still watch movies)
http://rampantgames.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/bwcliches.png


I think DA2 had the potential to be better than Origins. The problem I found is not the map recycling itself (MA1 had a ton of that as well), but that since everything was in the same area the plotlines got jumbled. Typical Bioware is "go four places to save the world". In each of the 4 places there are a bunch of subplots. I felt like that in DA2 this was all stacked on top of itself so it was harder to keep track of the main plot. DA1 the areas were all distinct, and easier to keep in mind why you were there (DA2 - after awhile you knew where every fight was going to be just based on the recycled map). The underlying story was pretty interesting (the corrupting relic), but was buried under tons of side quests.

On inventory - I prefer DA2 - I tire of the "fiddly bits" - I do not play heroic dark fantasy to sit there for hours figuring out which gem makes my sword hit for .00005% more.

On companions - I would love to mix a party up with Morgainne, Varric, and Oghren. That one might never leave the tavern but provide hours of entertainment. Each game had interesting companions. I do not think I completed a romance plotline in DA2 (I guess scoring the pirate does not count - its a good thing this was not Fable - lord knows what STD you would pick up).

I give credit to Bioware for breaking out of their formula. Some stuff worked, some stuff did not. I like DA1 probably because they did the "tried and true" and it worked. I enjoyed DA2 but they need to work on a few concepts.

 

[Sir Robilar]

I found DA2 to be a horribly boring hackfest with over-the-top and offending sexualization of its female characters, especially Isabela. I quit after playing for about 12 hours and sold the game back to the shop.

 

[billd91]

I played the demo and found that I couldn't read anything on the screen. I don't have an HD TV, I don't have a big LCD TV. I have a slightly older TV hooked up to my Xbox 360. The text on Origins was pretty small and hard to read and, if anything, it was worse on the demo of DA2. So, I didn't buy the full copy.

 

[ahayford]

My only real complaint with DA2 was the major overuse of dungeon tiles. It was definitely a more "urban" style game which I think some players just weren't into. I loved the characters and thought the story was pretty good. I was also a bit sad to see them axe the style of character creation that DA1 had, but on its own DA2 was still a good game.

 

[Quickleaf]

I'm really intrigued by where the Dragon Age story is going, though it just about defines a railroad. The ending of Dragon Age 2 left me thinking it was more of a bridging game before DA3. Last month I played through the Legacy DLC hoping to learn more about the story and it kind of sucked. No, it flat out sucked. When DA3 comes out I'll wait for a consensus of reviews to decide whether to pick it up.

[MENTION=34958]Deuce Traveler[/MENTION] Yeah Witcher 2 is pretty awesome, particularly in the depth of story and choices you get to make - really feels like you're in a novel and steering which way it goes. I found the combat a little easier to control than the first game, though there were plenty of difficult combats. Be warned there are QTEs and long cut scenes if that kind of thing turns you off..