Am I the only one who thinks Incarnum is hokey?

[ZeroGlobal2003]

I just think you're getting this from the wrong angle.... I'm interested in knowing why the fact that WotC has done something inventive instead of just reprinting material offends you so much?

They didn't include it in a core book, and thus it is completely optional. You don't need to do anything to your campaign world to make it fit, you simply say it doesn't exist. Done.

If you want incarnum then you can explain it. Is magic divided into arcane and divine in your world? Do druids draw power from the land instead of deities? If they do then whats the problem with a new source of magic, or a new understanding of it? There is a whole chapter talking about just this thing: it has some good ideas and good ways to treat it.

I think with this book it takes a while for the ideas to ferment in your mind. Its not like psionics where you have a picture before you buy it. Its not like they stole a system from a cool book and then made rules for it. Its all new, and so you have to figure out what makes it cool for yourself. To me thats a couple of the PrCs and their associated groups. The Necrocarnate is a good villain, and actually gives a reason for them to kill randomly. The Umbral Disciple screams for a "dark avenger" Batman rip off with its "makes evil fear the dark" type attitude...

There are a couple of things that they could have done better to make this gel quicker, but the primary one for me is the art... Of the classes presented in the book (Incarnate, Soulborn, and Totemist) it seems like 60-80% of the art is of totemists, which really are the weirdest of the three classes presented. I think a better emphasis on art for the Incarnate and the Soulborn would make the book easier to swallow, and let people visualize the very odd totemists in due time.


In the end its your choice. WotC did something new. You can use it or you can file in on the shelf next to the other books you don't use... if there aren't any then your world has more internal consistancy problems then you let on

Zero

 

[LeifVignirsson]

I actually had been waiting for this book for a while and spent money on my card to get it... I can say that it might be a little bit on the cheese side but if done properly with a few tweaks here and there, I can see it being a good fit and explanation for some high level magical item creation/artifact creation...

It is a little tough to digest, but it is one of the few books I read cover to cover and anticipate doing it again...

But then to each their own. I know my old DM will use this as his new way to make magic items since he destroyed magic in his game. He wanted it to be a "low magic" world where mages cast spells at a price to the world and themselves, this would be that price... soul/essence stealing.

Then again, that is why I left the campaign...

 

[Sammael]

The book's "flavor" (ugh) bothers me more than the mechanics. And I really don't like the mechanics. Pass.

 

[Wormwood]

After a fifteen-minute brows through my friend's copy my opinion can be summed up with the following drunken non-statement, "It looks like a boatload of crunch pretending to be fluff"

 

[Captain Tagon]

I haven't had a chance to check out the book yet thanks to low funds, but the concept seems REALLY interesting. Especially for someone so burnt out on Vancian magic.

 

[Sarellion]

I don´t understand the complaint that it messes up the system´s metaphysics, Moritheil. If it doesn´t fit in your setting and its metaphysics then leave it out. Why do you complain that a new kind of supernatural power doesn´t fit your world? It´s not like it is in the PHB. The races books introduced a whole slew of new races. Did you feel compelled to include them, even if you have no space for them? I wouldn´t change an existing setting if I wasn´t able to include the new stuff, somehow.

There is no real fluff and metaphysical explanation tacked on the PHB magic system. It varies from world to world. You add the fluff or the setting books do it for you. It seems that the book has a whole chapter how to introduce this force to a world.
If the metaphysics of your setting don´t mesh with it, fine, but that´s not the fault of the book.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

I haven't had a chance to check out the book yet thanks to low funds, but the concept seems REALLY interesting. Especially for someone so burnt out on Vancian magic.

Based on my (admittedly limited) reading, I don't actually think it could replace the core magic system. It's neat, and I'm sorta tempted to play a totemist, but you can't do things like, say, toast a bunch of enemies all at once.

It is, however, kinda neat. It's pretty much all about self-enhancement, and some on-the-fly resource allocation. Decide you need more of a bonus in this soulmeld as opposed to that one? You can move the essentia around and make adjustments, though it takes a swift action.

Brad

 

[der_kluge]

If your campaign world has difficulty to incorporate Incarnum than just exclude it or do you feel pressured by your players to include it?

This is an odd statement. Why isn't "don't buy the book in the first place" an option? Last I checked, WoTC books aren't mandatory purchases. Or by "exclude" do you mean "don't buy it". I read this as, "don't include those rules", but maybe I'm reading more into that than I should.

As for me, this is just yet another WoTC book that I have absolutely zero interest in. Right next to Eberron.

 

[FireLance]

Like others have said, it's a completely new approach to tapping supernatural powers, similar in spirit if not in implementation to the warlock. I'm still finishing up my first cover-to-cover read (I just got to the monsters section this morning), and my impression so far is that it's a pretty interesting system, quite well balanced, and less complicated than spellcasting because it's less open-ended. My more detailed comments on the system are in this thread.

I personally like Magic of Incarnum, but even if I didn't (I wasn't all that happy about Weapons of Legacy, for example), I would still think it's great that WotC is willing to take a chance on something new and innovative instead of simply giving us more of the same. It helps evolve the game, and might bring in people who like the new system.

 

[Mercule]

Re: Your homebrew, if not actually knowing what the heck went on in your own world floats your boat, far be it from me to tell you you're doing anything wrong.

I know plenty well what's happened in my world. I know where there have been wizards, psions, etc. present at many events. I do not, however, know or care which spell was cast by Candrian at the Battle of R'Colth at 3:27 in the afternoon. He used magic. That may have been wizardly, but it could have just as easily have been invocations or incarnum (not that I know exactly what incarnum is). It's never been brought up to PCs, so I'm the only person who'd know that it was fudged.

And I'm not inclined to clench my cheeks about such things. I've yet to find a system that worked perfectly with my vision. D&D is functional and fun for most things. If I, however, find a system that better represents my vision of how things worked, I'm bloody well going to retcon it and sing the whole while.

If the core system(s) work for you, that's just grand. Magic of the Incarnum obviously wasn't aimed at you. There is absolutely no reason to get snarky about it.