American vs European Movies = Combat vs Roleplaying ?

[Rashak Mani]

We see so many roleplayer vs powergamer threads... so many combat vs dialogue clashes. It made me wonder why do we play RPGs in the first place. Myself I like the tactical thing... the lets beat the monster and sometimes figure out the mystery.

Now most of the time I consider myself a cultural and brainy guy. Yet on a gaming table I´m a wargamer going on munchkin. The best analogy I could come up with are films !

I know many americans think subtitles are a drag and wont see a non-american movie... but those who do bother to see european/artsy movies know that after such a movie your brain feels so much more satisfied. Usually makes you think or shocks you in a positive way. (yes some of them make us sleep too.)

Now your normal american/action no-brainer movie is loads of fun... shooting, explosions and chases. Bad story and lousy acting. Yet we still see them and have lots of fun. Full of special effects and zero thinking.

D&D full of combat and fireballs flying are like an american/action movie. Dazzling and action packed yet lacking somewhat in refinement. Powergaming becomes normal just like all action actors are full of muscles. When the game is over you can talk about all the best "scenes" and how the "hero" destroyed/exploded/blasted/killed the bad guy/dragon/monster. Naturally the story and "acting" are bad ... but who cares in the end ?

Good roleplaying can be like a european movie with complex and real like stories. Characters with emotions and not muscles. Plots that you have to think in order to appreciate. The Story as a whole gets ever more sophisticated and complex... you want to know how it will end. You want to know whats happening and the motivation of NPCs not just XPs.

Good analogy ?

 

[Crothian]

I don't know. I like subtitiles and I watch foreign films. I'm also first in line to see the latest hollywood special effects movies. I'm mostly a role player with a little power gaming thrown in. Actually I like to make what would be slightly on the powerful side characters and then hinder them drastically with role playing.

 

[Knightcrawler]

Hmmm you might actually have somewhat of a point. But to say that all American cinema is shot-em up, brainless, violet stuff and that all European movies are high-brow artsy films is a little to general of a statement for my tastes.

We have brainy, artsy fair that puts you to sleep and Europeans have their own action films. I've seen "Brotherhood of the Wolf" really kick but movie and the subtiles didn't bother me. Another I saw was "Man Bites Dog" one of the most disturbing films I've seen in my life, also with subtitles. Both were French films.

So while I see your point. You really can't generalize films that way.

 

[Rashak Mani]

Its a generalization... just like power gamer and munchkin... yet most people do associate action genre with American movies and European with artsy movie. Brotherhood of the Wolf was ONE movie only... (very good thou)

Yes some american directors do run away from silly action style and some french are making good fun movies.

Now lets forget movie critique and focus on why smart people play "dumbly". (me included)

 

[Celebrim]

I can't agree. This is too much of a generalization, and I'm not even sure I agree with the analogy on the surface. I find most European cinema silly, pretentious, and overwrought. Afterwards, I feel like I've been to some sort of circus side show with a ring master barking about the superiority of his attractions. Yes, Hollywood tends to make alot of garbage, and yes sometimes Hollywood isn't even trying to make something other than garbage, but at least you can count on them to make 1d4 interesting thoughtful movies a year. Continental European cinema is doing good when it makes as many movies I like in a decade. And while many of the best actors (at least in the English language) are from England, Scotland, and Austrailia - they are making movies in Hollywood.

And it isn't the subtitles either. Probably the foreign country making the best movies right now is China. For those of you that liked 'Croaching Tiger, Hidden Dragon', I recommend the more thoughtful but equally good peice 'King of Masks'. Heck, for those of you that thought CTHD was too much hokey kung fu socky, I recommend 'King of Masks'.

 

[Ilen]

I know many Americans think subtitles are a drag and wont see a non-american movie... but those who do bother to see european/artsy movies know that after such a movie your brain feels so much more satisfied. Usually makes you think or shocks you in a positive way. (yes some of them make us sleep too.)

Subtitles are cool, but it depends on the movie and the pace of the dialog. For instance I can't stand watching Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon dubbed, it has to be subtitles, it's just a better experience for me that way.

How ever I watched an Italian film about a guy who keeps the fact that he and his family are in a concentration camp a secret from his son. Anyway, I couldn't watch it with subtitles, for some reason it was just harder to keep up, I do believe there was a notable difference between the speed of conversation in that movie and Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon which may actually be the only reason.

 

[Rashak Mani]

I find most European cinema silly, pretentious, and overwrought.

Do you think guys who want a lot of roleplaying in detriment of "combat like" gaming are "silly, pretentious, and overwrought." ?

The comparison in film styles and gaming styles, no matter your taste for films themselves, is what I´m seeking.

BTW my experience with a "wanna have a lot of character development" person was that she took more time of the game and the DM during sessions than was really necessary or fun. Some rping is good and necessary. Too much makes for boring ego shining. Or even Pretentious and overwrought.

( Before I get bombarded with more cinema critique... I prefer intelectually artsy movies and yet I also have great fun with action movies. Variety makes for spice in life. Yet in gaming I focus on action. )

 

[Ravellion]

How ever I watched an Italian film about a guy who keeps the fact that he and his family are in a concentration camp a secret from his son. Anyway, I couldn't watch it with subtitles, for some reason it was just harder to keep up, I do believe there was a notable difference between the speed of conversation in that movie and Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon which may actually be the only reason.

I loved the conclusion of that movie. I kept up with the (Dutch) subtitles just fine. I just saw "Kissing Jessica Stein", and that was an American movie which was very different from the norm. Good dialogue too. It broke every cliche, while it did lead you on so that you though a cliche was about to happen (don't want to give spoilers)

Our group has an Architect in training who wants to hack and slash, two reasoanbly smart but unmotivated guys who want a mix, and an IT guru who wants heavy roleplay.

Rav

 

[Psion]

I'm just going to ignore the analogy because I think it's wrong. Sure we have True Lies (and much like D&D, it outsells the artsy segment of the media), but we also have The Usual Suspects. I will make a movie analogy I was thinking of, though.

I was watching CTHD last night, and immediately thought of it as an analogy for how I game. It has both its dramatic moments and some kick-butt action.*

Combat and roleplaying are not mutually exclusive... no matter what the self-superior "my way is the one true way" gamers may spew.
* - He, if your game is a Jackie Chan movie or Sophie's Choice, more power to ya!

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Nope, poor analogy. There are plenty of American films with good plots and there are plenty of Euro flims with nothing but action and crap plots.

The only Euro movies that make it over to the USA are the top movies. To say this is any sort of indication of what Euro movies are like is very inaccurate.

It is like saying that all Vietnamese are as honest and hard working as the Vietnamese who worked their butts off to make it to the USA after the war and have worked their butts off since then to make sure their children suceed. You are not seeing the average person you are seeing the exceptional person who has fought to suceed.