Ampersand: 2011 releases officially gutted

[Ourph]

There's also the aspect of a brand's visibility. D&D *needs* shelf space to remain visible.

That's what the Essentials products are for.

Not to mention Dungeon Tiles, boxes of tokens and other game aids that need to be sold as physical products.

 

[ShadesOfGrey]

Hmm, on the ebook vs physical book discussion, one argument I feel hasnt been made yet.

D&D (and other p&p rpg's) is this kinda arcane, kinda adventurous activity and hobby. A shelf full of books, pencils, funny dice, some mini's maybe.. these are important parts of this 'romanticised' experience.

Sure, I guess maybe I'm just getting older, not quite in the generation for whom internet & the digital everything has always been there.

I suppose the next wave of early adopters or once digital presence is more accepted, it's technologically & economically a better idea to go to digital delivery.
But I have to wonder if the 'kids' who'd ride the wave of techno advancement are really going for a style of game that is behind the times and kinda... sorry to say it.. obsolete.

Look at people playing guitar.. the materials & styles of the popular models have mostly remained stuck in the '50s. You can make a very advanced guitar using plexiglass instead of wood, digital enhancments instead of analogue electronics and whatnot.. and it's mostly rejected.. because it just isnt the same. With amplifiers, for all their 'obsoleteness' an old style vacuum tube amp is pretty much the most popular choice.

There are a lot of niche artists who make most of their money selling vinyl still, not digital.

imo, ttrpgs are a kinda of hobbyist thing mostly. It's something that sells & plays not only on it's own properties, but also it's nostalgia and romatic value. Taking away that value, and how much does it actually differ from any other type of entertainment product?

 

[ArcaneSpringboard]

I'm concerned about this WOTC announcement. By itself it is very bad news for D&D for 2011, since I have no interest in board games and accessories and it sounds like very little support for D&D itself this year. But even worse I worry this means WOTC is abandoning D&D altogether, or is already busy at work coming up with some crazy 5th edition instead of supporting 4th edition just when they were finally getting it right.

As I said on Twitter, wait until AFTER DDXP, and THEN declare the death of D&D.

We got the bad news now because people were demanding it. But we're not going to get the good news until DDXP, since that's when they'll do their announcements.

Plus, they've already stated that the content of those books will be dealt with in DDI. It's just that we don't know yet if it's additional content for DDI, or in place-of it.

 

[Dice4Hire]

So break them up into the mags make them better, and release something to replace them.

WOTC can do the former if they must (and seem to be), but I see no sign they are doing the latter.

 

[Dumnbunny]

As I said on Twitter, wait until AFTER DDXP, and THEN declare the death of D&D.

We got the bad news now because people were demanding it. But we're not going to get the good news until DDXP, since that's when they'll do their announcements.

Plus, they've already stated that the content of those books will be dealt with in DDI. It's just that we don't know yet if it's additional content for DDI, or in place-of it.

How it will be dealt with might just be more bad news.

If the canceled content (and similar future content) winds up as Dragon articles or as ebooks in PDF or some other format I'd personally be content with that (YMMV). If it winds up as database entries in the compendium, then that would be a very bad idea.

Personally, I won't rent access to game elements contained in a database behind a pay-wall. That's a fool's game, as former subscribers to Yahoo! Music can attest. What happens when the company shuts down the servers, not because they're going bankrupt but simply because maintaining the server doesn't fit their current business plan or whatever?

 

[Charwoman Gene]

The non-DDI products will be core books with races and classes. Magic items and powers and feats will be in collectible packs. DDI subscribers will have access to all the items through the compendium. I sincerely hope this isn't true, and don't think it is likely, but I felt I should share the idea.

 

[SlyDoubt]

Hmm, on the ebook vs physical book discussion, one argument I feel hasnt been made yet.

D&D (and other p&p rpg's) is this kinda arcane, kinda adventurous activity and hobby. A shelf full of books, pencils, funny dice, some mini's maybe.. these are important parts of this 'romanticised' experience.

Sure, I guess maybe I'm just getting older, not quite in the generation for whom internet & the digital everything has always been there.

I suppose the next wave of early adopters or once digital presence is more accepted, it's technologically & economically a better idea to go to digital delivery.
But I have to wonder if the 'kids' who'd ride the wave of techno advancement are really going for a style of game that is behind the times and kinda... sorry to say it.. obsolete.

Look at people playing guitar.. the materials & styles of the popular models have mostly remained stuck in the '50s. You can make a very advanced guitar using plexiglass instead of wood, digital enhancments instead of analogue electronics and whatnot.. and it's mostly rejected.. because it just isnt the same. With amplifiers, for all their 'obsoleteness' an old style vacuum tube amp is pretty much the most popular choice.

There are a lot of niche artists who make most of their money selling vinyl still, not digital.

imo, ttrpgs are a kinda of hobbyist thing mostly. It's something that sells & plays not only on it's own properties, but also it's nostalgia and romatic value. Taking away that value, and how much does it actually differ from any other type of entertainment product?

Yep. Will always be true. I prefer paper thank you. I like having a nicely bound and printed book in my hands to leaf through and explore. That is part of the experience.

It's not just about the idea, it's also about the experience. Digital recording doesn't invalidate analog just by being clearer. It's just different. Most people I know in the music scene prefer analog methods and live recording. Mostly because it's more tangible. I prefer paper in the case of D&D.

Digital has tons of advantages in both but those advantages do not outweigh the qualities of a nice book or a thoughtfully recorded and mastered reel of tape.

DDI should focus on very well organized repository of information. New material considered 'core' to the game (such as the class compendium) should appear in both formats. I realize from what info was available it was mostly a revision of the phb with essentials taken into account but that is simply what was needed.

Honestly I have been waiting for that book since before it was announced and now I find it is cancelled with no replacement in sight. I want a book I can carry in my bag and place on my sidetable to read when I can and share with friends/players. What I don't want is to have a subscription monthly to access information on my laptop which I spend enough time on as it is.

I hope WoTC has something up their sleeve.

 

[ArcaneSpringboard]

How it will be dealt with might just be more bad news.

If the canceled content (and similar future content) winds up as Dragon articles or as ebooks in PDF or some other format I'd personally be content with that (YMMV). If it winds up as database entries in the compendium, then that would be a very bad idea.

Personally, I won't rent access to game elements contained in a database behind a pay-wall. That's a fool's game, as former subscribers to Yahoo! Music can attest. What happens when the company shuts down the servers, not because they're going bankrupt but simply because maintaining the server doesn't fit their current business plan or whatever?

I highly doubt they'd add stuff to the Compendium without also printing it as a DDI article.

 

[Dice4Hire]

I am sure WOTC will do something, and most likely at DDXP, as Gencon is just too far away.

But will I like it? That is the question. I want books with traditional 4E support. It can support Essentials, too, that is fine. I think it is possible to make a book that does both. Just like tempest fighter at-wills really don't work for a sword and board fighter, it can be done.

That I would like to see. But overall, I would like to see essentials 10 books and only 10.

Selfish, I suppose, but there it is.

 

[JoeGKushner]

As I said on Twitter, wait until AFTER DDXP, and THEN declare the death of D&D.

We got the bad news now because people were demanding it. But we're not going to get the good news until DDXP, since that's when they'll do their announcements.

Plus, they've already stated that the content of those books will be dealt with in DDI. It's just that we don't know yet if it's additional content for DDI, or in place-of it.

Kind of like how the previews of upcoming material were supposed to be additional content?