Ampersand: Graz'zt from MoP

[Klaus]

BTW, shouldn't Grazzt be an immortal?

 

[Steely Dan]

BTW, shouldn't Grazzt be an immortal?

No, only devils are, demons are elemental (see Orcus).

 

[Plane Sailing]

I don't understand why people think that demons can't have schemers or seducers. Why can't both sides use subterfuge and seduction towards separate goals. A devil would convince a mortal to seek more power or help create / instigate a pogrom. A demon would convince a mortal to murder every in the city with red hair and side-burns, or just kill every they meet with the name Howard. Devils create tyrants, demons create serial killers. They aren't dumb, just chaotic. Where did this idea originate?

4e recasts demons as 'destruction incarnate' as against devils as 'schemers and plotters'.

That's why 4e-brand demons are typically just destructive, and they rebrand Grazzt to explain how you can have a scheming demon prince.

 

[EATherrian]

4e recasts demons as 'destruction incarnate' as against devils as 'schemers and plotters'.

That's why 4e-brand demons are typically just destructive, and they rebrand Grazzt to explain how you can have a scheming demon prince.

This one is older than 4E. I know that they rebranded demons and devils to fit this paradigm, I just don't see the need for it. I also dislike the 4E cosmology, so I intend to keep demons and devils as they were for the most part.

 

[Zaukrie]

While I'm not generally a fan of the changes to the cosmology, it is starting to be better. The problem with throwing out 30 years of cosmology for this new shiny is that they are putting it out so piecemeal. I have no idea if it is better or not at this point.

As for the excerpt - if that is the extent of the fluff, I will continue to be disappointed in the fluff work of this company. The MM fell down, badly, in this regard (how would a new DM have any idea about most of the monsters in there), and this description, while nice, is pretty short.

The content was good, but it was a tad hollow or light.

 

[Klaus]

No, only devils are, demons are elemental (see Orcus).

Hence my asking. If Grazzt was originally a devil, did he "morph" into an elemental? If he did, how could he possibly be a double agent in the Abyss (as the article suggests as possible)? As a matter of fact, *can* a creature's origin change?

 

[Steely Dan]

Hence my asking. If Grazzt was originally a devil, did he "morph" into an elemental? If he did, how could he possibly be a double agent in the Abyss (as the article suggests as possible)? As a matter of fact, *can* a creature's origin change?

Good question, I haven't even read the article, all I know is Graz'zt has been a demon in every edition so far, and demons in 4th Ed are Elemental.

I think given time, your origin type could change.

 

[catsclaw227]

I also noticed that the stats for the sword show it to have:

Property: This weapon deals ongoing 5 poison damage (save ends) on a successful melee attack.

But in the stat-block for Grazzt, it is ongoing 10 acid damage. Mix up? I would make the sword acid damage.

 

[catsclaw227]

Hence my asking. If Grazzt was originally a devil, did he "morph" into an elemental? If he did, how could he possibly be a double agent in the Abyss (as the article suggests as possible)? As a matter of fact, *can* a creature's origin change?

Maybe this is one of the ambiguities of the new cosmology that allows DMs to decide for themselves. Can a creature change its origin? Or can the Elemental Chaos and the Abyss change someone if they are there for too long?

 

[tsadkiel]

Maybe this is one of the ambiguities of the new cosmology that allows DMs to decide for themselves. Can a creature change its origin? Or can the Elemental Chaos and the Abyss change someone if they are there for too long?

"What can change the nature of a man?"