Ampersand: Sneak Attack

[Voss]

On the damage: If I recall the Spined Devil correctly, the numbers made sense if half it's level was added to just about everything except damage. Everything you added a d20 to, it just occurs to me.

So [W]+Dex probably means just the weapon die + stat bonus IMO.

Actually, I do believe that particular bonus is just one of those things that monsters just don't get but PCs do.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

I image the fluff given is only a VERY small part of the actual PHB section for Rogues. Since this mainly to give a taste for people going to D&D Experience just as much as it is for the rest of us, and thus crunch is more important then fluff for this.

 

[Incenjucar]

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I'm a little uncomfortable with the lack of club/sap/improvised weapon proficiency, and the forced Thievery skill, and I think I'll be throwing down some house rules unless the 4E club is some massive death dealer and Thievery has some serious use for an honorable fencer.

I also wish "shuriken" was "throwing blade" to represent "throwing knives, shuriken, and darts."

I also really wish they had shown at least one example of rogues doing special stuff with skills.

 

[Rechan]

What's the pun of Artful Dodger?

I had no clue so many people hated the word 'shuriken'.

 

[MaelStorm]

Ah, no problem. I tend to view it as a downside too, I was just curious since moot tends to mean something that doesn't matter anymore. Sorry.

I should be more careful in the future.

It's because there is a word that is very close in French [mou, pronounced in Englished moo] that means: feeble, not strong, etc.

I didn't know it was meaning irrelevant only, because I always related that word to: low, not strong or feeble and it always made perfect sense.

Anyway, it's a good lesson I learned tonight.

 

[Greenfaun]

What's the pun of Artful Dodger?

I think it's a literary allusion, not a pun. But that's just me being pedantic.

IIRC, Artful Dodger was the name of the urchin who tutored Oliver in being a pickpocket in Oliver Twist.

EDIT: Geez, I completely forgot to mention how much I love this article! Crunchy goodness! I am now even more confident that I will like 4e.

 

[mach1.9pants]

My 2p:

2. On religion: there is nothing on religion. The religion section consists of "pick a god. Here's some." Where is the discussion of why I might want to follow a god as a rogue? What sorts of attitudes do rogues have toward religion? Are they often devout in a "throw the dice and see what the gods give me" sort of way, or are they generally a bunch of godless heathens who put more trust in their own daggers and lockpicks? I think this got pretty short shrift, and could use some fleshing out, if only just for the sort of roleplaying hooks that they threw in for the "why you're a rogue" section above it.

I like this, I reckon that the descriptions in 3E PHB about religion suck. Yes, We are all individuals! (..I'm not..sorry a bit of Python). Religion is a very personal thing, yes these are gods that a lot of rogues like thats enough. I don't want the PHB saying rogues are irreligious, fervent or otherwise some are some aren't and please don't shoe horn me! It is bad enough that every rogue has theivery and stealth, what if my rogue is a complete acrobat and wants other skills. He doesn't steal things he leaps over baddies and sneak attacks 'em?

3. On rogue powers: hey, check it out. The names don't suck. Although the pun in "Artful Dodger" kind of grates on me. But that's puns for you. I also like the way that you pick whether you're going to be a thug or finesse rogue, and then get synergies with the powers you pick. The last power listed is exactly the sort of thing I expected to see: it sets up enemies for sneak attacks. I bet there's a lot of those.

I think the 2 builds reduce your options a lot. Ok you can choose what you want but if you choose 'positioning strike' as a thug..sorry Brutal Scoundrel you are really nerfing your power. I think you are going to be stuck with the recommended build to a certain extent uless you are happy nerfing your power for your character ideal- this is not what 4E said it will be about!

4. Weapon talent: neato. Saves you having to take feats to be good at signature weapons.
5. Dex to hit: also neato.

Oh yes tho, these I like.

EDIT and this I agree with:

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I'm a little uncomfortable with the lack of club/sap/improvised weapon proficiency, and the forced Thievery skill, and I think I'll be throwing down some house rules unless the 4E club is some massive death dealer and Thievery has some serious use for an honorable fencer.

I also wish "shuriken" was "throwing blade" to represent "throwing knives, shuriken, and darts."

I also really wish they had shown at least one example of rogues doing special stuff with skills.

 

[Darth Cyric]

Three things that are giving me pause:

- I hope they're clarifying the description of Positioning Strike because I can think of quite a few situations where this could be really broken the way it's currently written (especially with Artful Dodger).

- Weapon Proficiency list looks thin. I liked the sap, too. And no rapier? I guess that means the Ranger is the rapier-wielding swashbuckler? Or maybe it is *gasp* the Fighter, after all?

- This one's more curiosity than anything else, but it is kinda weird that intelligence has no effect on trained skills.

Other than that, I like it a lot. Static HPs are great, and it looks like HPs in general are being scaled back. The powers in general are written up very cleanly and well, and other than the one in question above, are all very cool.

 

[Imp]

I hope the full version of the class isn't so damn narrow. Disappointed. Especially if 4e multiclassing is as restrictive as it sounds like it might be.

 

[Voss]

I should be more careful in the future.

It's because there is a word that is very close in French [mou, pronounced in Englished moo] that means: feeble, not strong, etc.

I didn't know it was meaning irrelevant only, because I always related that word to: low, not strong or feeble and it always made perfect sense.

Anyway, it's a good lesson I learned tonight.

Hope I didn't come across as too much of a jerk about it.