An alternate view of Spell Preperation

[d4]

Any opinions?

how do sorcerers fit into this idea?

if the "real" casting of a spell takes place during "preparation," then what are sorcerers doing? they don't prepare anything.

 

[Stalker0]

By the argument of a sample vs the number of gamers, even if everyone on ENWorld responded to a poll 100% the same way, it would still be a small fraction. At best, you could call it a sampling and try to extrapolate the "percentage". But, that is non-productive.

Its been a while since I've had a statistics class, but doesn't the margin of error for sampling only depend on a certain number, relatively independent of the actual population?

 

[Aaron L]

Sorcerers are so good at magic they just cast the whole darn spell with a few quick motions and sounds. The official stance that it's not possible to distinguish a sorcerer from a wizard from their spellcasting procedure conflicts with the official explanation of spell preparation being precasting the largest part of your spells beforehand.

The standard magic system is not a bad mechaninc, and it's not clumsy. It may not be to some peoples taste, but that's not a flaw with the system. What we need are some alternate spellcasting systems balanced with the standard system. I'd use several systems in tandem in my games (if they were available)

 

[Cheiromancer]

It has also been a long time since my statistics class, but I think that when the respondents to a survey are self-selected the accuracy goes way, way down.

 

[Crothian]

So, with all this dislike for the current system does that mean more people are using the alternate casting methods like presented in AEG's Magic and other places?

 

[Hand of Evil]

I have explained it badly as the loading of a gun, memorizing spells is a loaded gun, the spell is there all you have to do is pull the trigger. Casting on the fly takes a bit longer, you have to select the bullet, open the gun and then load it, then pull the trigger. The reason for having the slots is much the same as having a hoster for the gun, easy access.

 

[BSF]

I'm not really big on statistics either. But, would you trust the population of ENWorld to be completely representative of all the gamers out there? Don't get me wrong, I think we have a great community. But, we have nearly 15,000 registered users. If there are 1,000,000 gamers out there, then we account for less than 1.5% of them. Obviously, all of us have internet access of some sort, so it is possible that we don't even cover every demographic. I am just not sure we can extrapolate a whole lot about the wide world of gamers based on our preferences, which is really what my point was. Especially since there are some, such as myself, that haven't even responded in the polls about the magic system. Extrapolating that I like the system, based on my lack of protest, is incorrect. How many other people like me might there be?

So, really, I am agreeing with Umbran that we don't have a compelling sample to determine whether the majority of people like the system. Of course, there is also the question of how many people find the system useful and playable, even if they don't entirely like it.

Hmm, I think I am sounding grumpier than I mean to. And I am not sure I am really contributing to the conversation in any meaningful way. Perhaps I should sign off for a while.

Lonewolf23, if the flavor works for you, that's great! But, consider how you will explain spontaneous casting and quickened spells within the same framework. I think you probably want to use an encompassing system to maintain the flavor of your campaign and to do that you will need to explain these things on a basic level for your players. Sorcerors & Bards don't prepare spells. Prepared spells can be quickened. Clerics and Druids can spontaneously convert prepared spells into other spells. Come up with a way that your ritual magic can include these components and it will be a bit more believable to your players. I would also suggest thinking through what happens when the party is attacked at dawn as the spellcasters are going about their rituals. Do they start over again? Do they have some of their spells available? If you make it something interesting, you also end up with a possible encounter that will be memorable because of the risk incurred during ritual memorization.

 

[Tsyr]

So, with all this dislike for the current system does that mean more people are using the alternate casting methods like presented in AEG's Magic and other places?

Around here, of the DM's I know (Seven, myself included), only one routinely uses "by the book" spellcasting for DnD, and even he admits it's just an issue of simplicity. Most (I think all but three) don't use it at all anymore, myself included. The rest use it sometimes, but also use other systems, either at the same time, or depending on the game.

 

[Michael Tree]

That explanation has been around almost as long as vancian, and it's just as tired and old.

The explanation isn't the problem for me. It's the mechanics. No amount of rationalizing bad mechanics is going to make me like them.

That sums up my opinion of it exactly.

As for statistics, the people who post to EN world probably aren't a representative sample of D&D players as a whole, and the sub-sample of those who choose to vote in the poll is even less so.

Nevertheless, the fact that the overwhelming majority of those here who chose to vote dislike the vancian system is fairly telling. In most polls where an issue is truly equivocal, you usually find just as many people voting for it as against it. For example, if you create a poll about hit points, you'll find as many die-hard supporters as die-hard critics. That doesn't seem to be the case for vancian magic though. Many people hate vancian magic, but I have yet to find anyone who loves it. The best I've heard is that "it works well enough" or "there's no reason to change it" or arguments inferred from the overall popularity of D&D.

Now it really is more a question of balance. How can the worst aspects of vancian magic be removed while retaining game balance and retaining the D&D "feel". IMO, the "spells readied" solution that Monte's Arcana Unearthed uses is the perfect balance.

 

[Umbran]

Nevertheless, the fact that the overwhelming majority of those here who chose to vote dislike the vancian system is fairly telling. In most polls where an issue is truly equivocal, you usually find just as many people voting for it as against it.

Oh, really? Let's check that "fact"...

Look at this poll.

At the time of this writing, it's 108 to 93 in favor of vancian magic for D&D. That's reasonably even, and definitely not an overwhelming majority who chose to vote against vancian magic.