An elegant solution to unfun combat healing

[The Human Target]

Some very interesting ideas here.

I'd rather the assumptions of the game just change though, so that magical healing during a fight isn't going to be something that needs to happen a whole lot, or even at all.

 

[Victim]

I think spells like Close Wounds and Crusader-like powers work well for in combat healing. One of our current groups has a dedicated healer who gets lots of mileage out of the Close line (he's researched a more powerful variant).

The Close spells can work reactively, but consume the swift/immediate action that can be used to activate a bunch of other powers, so it's not totally free (in terms of actions) to use.

 

[fuindordm]

I think spells like Close Wounds and Crusader-like powers work well for in combat healing. One of our current groups has a dedicated healer who gets lots of mileage out of the Close line (he's researched a more powerful variant).

What is this Crusader power everyone keeps mentioning?

Improving the amount of healing per spell might be a better solution as some have suggested, but runs up against the problem of making HP an important resource between combats. Up until now, HP have been king among party resources, and the real determiner of when people go home and rest. I think it would work OK if you had only a few (per day) BIG healing spells, and lots of smaller effects that could provide healing during combat on an ongoing basis. It wouldn't feel very D&Dish, but we could probably get used to it.

For example, I could imagine a feat that created a positive energy "spash" around the cleric every time she cast a spell, so that everyone within 10' heals 1d4 per spell level. That would be pretty cool (and even cooler if it didn't 'magically' distinguish allies from enemies), but I wouldn't want to see it a default ability of all clerics.

I agree with Henry that the choice of attacking or healing should still be an important one to the cleric--but it certainly shouldn't be a choice they have to make every round! This issue starts bleeding over into how encounters should be balanced, however. A cleric who is healing all the time, in every fight, is probably facing encounters that the party are not really ready for. That's exciting for everyone but the cleric.

It it entirely possible to give the party challenging encounters without every hit on a PC being life-threatening!

 

[Scribble]

I think the heal system as it is adds somewhat to the tactical nature of the game.

If you use the additional HP at the start iof the game, it sort of takes away from the decisions you have to make durring the game...

AKA "Do I hope the monster doesn't get off another large attack on the wounded fighter, and go with this option... OR do I forgo the option now and heal the fighter..."

It's a chess match, and part of what I like about playing a cleric...

 

[MerricB]

The trouble with both methods is that they relieve the cleric of making decisions. Or, they punish the cleric (and other PCs) for making the wrong decisions. Either the cleric can ward everyone... in which case you might as well give everyone more hp... or the cleric has to choose who to ward. Wrong choice? Sorry Mr Thief, didn't think you'd be hurt that bad... oh well, next character?

The advantage of the "action + healing" method is that you get the healing you need whilst still making the choice important for the PC - and not one you need to guess ahead of time.

Cheers!

 

[Scribble]

The trouble with both methods is that they relieve the cleric of making decisions. Or, they punish the cleric (and other PCs) for making the wrong decisions. Either the cleric can ward everyone... in which case you might as well give everyone more hp... or the cleric has to choose who to ward. Wrong choice? Sorry Mr Thief, didn't think you'd be hurt that bad... oh well, next character?

The advantage of the "action + healing" method is that you get the healing you need whilst still making the choice important for the PC - and not one you need to guess ahead of time.

Cheers!

Not sure if I agree with that...

I don't think failure is an unfun unfair punishment. It's just part of the game... "Oh if only I had made a better choice poor Merric the Thief would still be alive!!!"

It's like a chess game where you get a piece taken... You get to be upset that you planned unwiely and lost the piece, but does that mean the rules of chess are broken and unfun?

 

[MerricB]

Not sure if I agree with that...

I don't think failure is an unfun unfair punishment. It's just part of the game... "Oh if only I had made a better choice poor Merric the Thief would still be alive!!!"

It's like a chess game where you get a piece taken... You get to be upset that you planned unwiely and lost the piece, but does that mean the rules of chess are broken and unfun?

In Chess, you don't write down your moves ahead of time and only reveal them in the midgame, forcing you to do something. In Chess, you have the choice to do something, and you can see the situation at that time. You don't have to decide upon your strategy before you even see what you're facing!

All the contingent healing spells do is say, "You have more hit points". They don't allow you to react to the situation where someone is in trouble. With contingent HP, all that happens is that you fight a little longer and then get into trouble!

Consider: situation as it is now:
Round 1: Fighter with 100 hp gets hit for 40.
Round 2: Fighter gets hit for 40; cleric loses action to run over and heal 50
Round 3: Fighter gets hit for 40; cleric loses action to heal 50
Round 4: Fighter gets hit for 40; cleric loses action to heal 50
etc.

To contingent healing:
Round 1: Fighter with 100 hp gets hit for 40.
Round 2: Fighter gets hit for 40; contingent healing triggers for 50.
Round 3: Fighter gets hit for 40; cleric loses action to heal 50
Round 4: Fighter gets hit for 40; cleric loses action to heal 50
etc.

To action+healing.
Round 1: Fighter with 100 hp gets hit for 40; cleric attack hits, also heals 50.
Round 2: Fighter gets hit for 40; cleric attack misses.
Round 3: Fighter gets hit for 40; cleric attack hits, also heals 50.
Round 4: Fighter gets hit for 40; cleric attack hits, also heals 50.
etc.

I'm simplifying, and there may come a time when the cleric needs to disengage and just cast healing spells (perhaps even the healing spell will heal *everyone* rather than just one PC).

Cheers!

 

[Scribble]

In Chess, you don't write down your moves ahead of time and only reveal them in the midgame, forcing you to do something. In Chess, you have the choice to do something, and you can see the situation at that time. You don't have to decide upon your strategy before you even see what you're facing!

To be a good chess player you do sort of... You know that there are certain moves your enemy will most likely make, and you plan accordingly. Master chess players plan several moves ahead, as well as several variations..

Same I see is true of a cleric. You pick your battle... Is it worth it to get one more X action in before I head over and repair the fighter...

Also you have the fighter's role in it as well.. Should he back off until he can get some healing, or stay with it and hope for the best...

All the contingent healing spells do is say, "You have more hit points". They don't allow you to react to the situation where someone is in trouble. With contingent HP, all that happens is that you fight a little longer and then get into trouble!

Yeah... I find that kind of pointless... Plus as you stated it doesn't allow you to react to situations.


Action +healing just seems like a cop out... Shrug. Maybe I'm just grognarding. Who knows... But it just feels like you loose your queen because you made the wrong move, but it doesn't matter because now ALL the pieces can move like the queen...

I would be willing to compromise and allow healing from a distance? Why should it be a touch thing? (aside from Jesus inspired flavor?)

One of my favorite spells is holy channel from Relics and Rituals. Lets you get off the healing bit, without having to move.. thus allow your next action to be a ful round action, and not a move/action...

 

[MerricB]

Action +healing just seems like a cop out... Shrug. Maybe I'm just grognarding. Who knows... But it just feels like you loose your queen because you made the wrong move, but it doesn't matter because now ALL the pieces can move like the queen...

Not quite true. Consider that you have to choose who you have to heal, and that it's dependent on you actually hitting (AFAIK), and there's quite a few choices left.

Cheers!

 

[Ravensblood]

Since the announcement of 4th Ed., and Star Wars Saga is a good example of possible 4th ed. mechanics, perhaps a "second wind" for hp is what your looking for. I believe every PC can catch a second wind to restore 1/4 total hp or Con score (whichever is higher) in hp once per encounter or day . This comes into effect once you fall below a certain level. There are feats/talents which grant a second use or an increase in hp recovery also available. This mechanic was needed in SW Saga where there is no true healer class and healing abilities are limited. Something like this can remove some of the need for a combat medic in your games.