An end to scry-buff-teleport?

[Hussar]

It is an only semi-viable tactic that can be countered by a spell of the same level (private sanctum) or a pair of 4th and 5th level spells (detect scrying + an evasive teleport). *IF* people prepare, SBT isn't viable unless used against people you can already crush casually. Given detect scrying's counter scry ability, S-B-T is actively dangerous.

That's only true if you are chasing wizards. Or those with access to wizards.

How many demons or devils can cast any of those spells you list? How about giants? Or an advanced basilisk?

It's not that easy to counter, unless the DM starts playing silly buggers and has EVERY adventure include counters. In which case, why bother having it in the first place if it's going to be countered every time?

 

[I'm A Banana]

The trick is, how? How do you make it so that the party or the villain can know exactly where someone is, get ready and then bamf right on top of him, and keep that in line with other tactics? Better instead to not allow teleporting through scrying. You can get close to the target with teleport, but, not right on top.

A few of the options mentioned in this thread are pretty good ideas (mythril circles to re-direct it, gorgon's blood to prevent it, the multiple strategies against it).

The idea is to give creatures without access to wizard magic the ability to prevent, redirect, and otherwise mess with teleports through other means. Make Private Sanctum something that any character can mimic (though perhaps spending more time, gold, and effort than a Wizard spell could do), and you've largely eradicated the problem.

 

[VirgilCaine]

The idea is to give creatures without access to wizard magic the ability to prevent, redirect, and otherwise mess with teleports through other means. Make Private Sanctum something that any character can mimic (though perhaps spending more time, gold, and effort than a Wizard spell could do), and you've largely eradicated the problem.

Forbiddance, Hallow, and Unhallow are all Cleric spells. Druids also get Hallow and Unhallow. Dimensional Anchor is a Cleric spell.

Check my sig for a non-magical way to make SBTers cry. I define natural energy as geologic or meteorological in origin, but you could also define it as living things--plants and animals. Rain forests and jungles would be bad places to try and teleport into.

Also, again, tell me how you can localize someone's location from a 10' radius of sight around them.

 

[AllisterH]

Forbiddance, Hallow, and Unhallow are all Cleric spells. Druids also get Hallow and Unhallow. Dimensional Anchor is a Cleric spell.

.

Er, what people mention "creatures without access to wizardly magic" the default assumption includes clerical magic.

 

[VirgilCaine]

Er, what people mention "creatures without access to wizardly magic" the default assumption includes clerical magic.

That's not what he said.

 

[Kraydak]

Er, what people mention "creatures without access to wizardly magic" the default assumption includes clerical magic.

If you try to run as a BBEG w/o magic at high levels, you deserve to get splattered. If you aren't a BBEG, who cares (enough to SBT you, at least)?

(Mind, noticing a Scry sensor really should be a spot check rather than an int check... and *remember* that that check exists. If the scryer is part of the buffing crew, it'll give the scryee time to prepare or flee)

 

[Hussar]

If you try to run as a BBEG w/o magic at high levels, you deserve to get splattered. If you aren't a BBEG, who cares (enough to SBT you, at least)?

(Mind, noticing a Scry sensor really should be a spot check rather than an int check... and *remember* that that check exists. If the scryer is part of the buffing crew, it'll give the scryee time to prepare or flee)

So, I should NEVER use demons or devils as BBEG? Cos, last time I checked, they don't have access by RAW to either wizard or clerical magic. Or, I should be constrained every time I want to use a demon or devil to automatically include a high level cleric/wizard side kick?

Never mind creatures like the Tarrasque. Or any of the really big critter monsters like Abyssal advanced basilisks. Or the fact that vermin go up to CR 20. Or... or ... or. I should be forced by the rules to ONLY use high level casters as BBEG's. Ummm, no thanks.

 

[Kraydak]

So, I should NEVER use demons or devils as BBEG? Cos, last time I checked, they don't have access by RAW to either wizard or clerical magic. Or, I should be constrained every time I want to use a demon or devil to automatically include a high level cleric/wizard side kick?

SBT against people with greater teleport is only interesting if you are really generous with the surprise round (and given that the teleportees don't know where they are landing exactly, I'm not sure why you would). You port in, buffed. They port out and return a few tens of minutes later. End result: you are down a bunch of spell slots.

Never mind creatures like the Tarrasque. Or any of the really big critter monsters like Abyssal advanced basilisks. Or the fact that vermin go up to CR 20. Or... or ... or. I should be forced by the rules to ONLY use high level casters as BBEG's. Ummm, no thanks.

*blink*
If the PCs *want* to scry on and jump an abyssal basilisk, more power to them. The creature has an int of *3*. You could just as easily Ropetrick-Buff-Exit Ropetrick. Or Fly. Heck, the basilisk has no protection against levitate, a simple second level spell. If you are going to complain about the vulnerability of vermin to SBT, the threat of Fly is far greater. SBT a late arriving spell combo which can only beaten by magic. Flight and Greater invis are lower level and easier to pull off. SBT isn't unique.

And no, you certainly aren't forced to use only high level casters as BBEGs. I never said you were. I said you were forced to use people with or with access to people with magic. A lvl 18 fighter BBEG needs magic support. Duh. If your lvl 18 fighter BBEG doesn't bother recruiting magical support, he deserves what he has coming (namely a rapid realization that he never qualified for BBEGdom).

 

[VirgilCaine]

If you try to run as a BBEG w/o magic at high levels, you deserve to get splattered. If you aren't a BBEG, who cares (enough to SBT you, at least)?

(Mind, noticing a Scry sensor really should be a spot check rather than an int check... and *remember* that that check exists. If the scryer is part of the buffing crew, it'll give the scryee time to prepare or flee)

In 3.5e, Scrying doesn't create a sensor. You can't notice it, you get a Will save.

This, howeve, raises the question of if you know you failed a will save.

 

[Kraydak]

In 3.5e, Scrying doesn't create a sensor. You can't notice it, you get a Will save.

This, howeve, raises the question of if you know you failed a will save.

PHB p.173, under Divination. Note further that Scrying has Effect:magical sensor.

(The rules are quite well hidden, I will admit)