An errata for Warlocks?

Anthelios

First Post
I'm looking for any official errata posted for warlocks. Currently have one in my game, that has just reached 9th level. Everytime he goes to make his touch attack roll, I cringe, knowing hes about to blast the living hell out of whatever they're fighting. Luckily, they game isn't much combat, mostly roleplay.. But the class seems very unbalanced in the damage unleashing department. Not to mention the invokations have gotten a little absurd.

Any help would be appreciated.
 

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He's dealing 5d6 or something, or somewhere around there, each round.

Pretend he is a sorcerer now, one who has fireball, and 6 third level spell slots, plus any bonus from 16+ charisma, each doing 9d6, with one of them possibly sudden maximized or sudden empowered. Oh yeah, and that sorcerer still has an Evard's or two up his sleeve, and maybe a Phantasmal Killer if he knows his enemy has inferior saves.

Now pretend he is a wizard who can Baleful Polymorph, Dominate Person, or Hold Monster.


Unless you're doing numerous combats per day, the warlock is nowhere near as powerful in damage dealing or enemy killing potential as the sorcerer, warmage, wizard, et al. His only advantage combat-wise is damage over a long period of time. But at that point, he's still doing less than a halfling scout with a flaming longbow (d6+d6+3d6 skirmish +1 magic minimum + strength), who has an attack bonus of +16 or so (24 dex (18+race+levels+2 item) + 6 BAB + 1 size +1 magic +1 weapon focus).

Now if the problem is the invocations other than eldritch blast, he only knows five right now (7 max if he takes "Extra Invocation" twice to get extra Least Invocations). Unless he is using "Flee the Scene" repeatedly all day, I don't see what he could be doing that a well played sorcerer couldn't do either. His only advantage is that he can keep up whatever he is doing longer, but considering his extremely limited selection of powers, it is a fair trade off.
 

I agree. At first glance Warlock comes across as overpowered, but when you see how limited it's other abilities are the eldritch blast doesn't tip the balance. I guess if you were running A LOT of combat encounters per day then it could become a problem, but I doubt very many people stage that many encounters.
 

Anthelios said:
I'm looking for any official errata posted for warlocks. Currently have one in my game, that has just reached 9th level. Everytime he goes to make his touch attack roll, I cringe, knowing hes about to blast the living hell out of whatever they're fighting. Luckily, they game isn't much combat, mostly roleplay.. But the class seems very unbalanced in the damage unleashing department. Not to mention the invokations have gotten a little absurd.

Any help would be appreciated.

If your warlock is dominating, then every other caster or fighter that you've ever played, seen played or heard of being played is being played to it's least effect.

Seriously. 5d6 is an average of 17.5 damage. If a 9th level fighter can't do that much in a single hit, there's something wrong. Just with an 18 strength and a greatsword, he's at 13.5, and he should be getting two or more swings per round.

Wizards and sorcerors have already been covered by others. Clerics are pretty much the same. Flame strike is only 5th level...
 

Saeviomagy said:
Wizards and sorcerors have already been covered by others. Clerics are pretty much the same. Flame strike is only 5th level...


And the druids, good lord the druids! I've seen druids that will make you cry. Not only does the druid get flamestrike and baleful polymorph, but he only needs to use them when not pouncing you as a Dire Lion, or grappling as a polar bear, flanking with his brown bear companion, etc.

Oh yeah, and he also used Natural Spell to cast Animal Growth on both his companion AND himself. 35 strength huge polar bear. Whee.
 

To answer your question, there really is only one bit of errata on the Warlock, and that involves restrictions on taking certain feats. (pretty minor and I'm sure someone will post a pointer to it on Wizard's boards.

To answer everyone else. This last weekend I played a warlock in a one-shot. While he did die at the end, he was pretty scary good. The damage reduction helped a lot (lots of small enemies). The ability to fly constantly (only lesser invokation) was huge (high ceilings mostly). The touch attack was really nice. And he used a spiked chain for lots and lots of AoOs. Granted the warmage did more damage than I ever could....

---
Things that I think make Warlocks more powerful than most people think:
Warlocks can be very powerful compared to non-optimized versions of other classes. Their powers aren't hard to optimize. In fact it is pretty hard to screw them up.

They are the only caster that really have no mental stat needs (Chr only impacts DC, and warlocks often don't care about DC very much). This lets them have high physical stats in a point-buy game.

A fair number of the Warlock's abilities can be free or Move equiv. things. The Damage reduction, the flight, the seeing inviso, etc. are just always on. Really really handy.
---

All told, I don't think Warlocks are huge. But people under-estimate their power. Especially if they are used to highly optimized characters. Most D&D players either aren't into the extreme level of character optimization or aren't as good at it as those that frequent these boards.
 

brehobit said:
And he used a spiked chain for lots and lots of AoOs.

This blows my mind. Why, on earth, would a Warlock spend 2 of his few feats on EWP and combat reflexes? And, why would he be getting into melee range in the first place?
 

apesamongus said:
This blows my mind. Why, on earth, would a Warlock spend 2 of his few feats on EWP and combat reflexes? And, why would he be getting into melee range in the first place?

I haven't studied warlocks too intently but as brehobit pointed out a warlock can drop your stronger stats into the physical categories without much degradation to incantations. So assuming you have a moderately buff warlock, you can get in a number of AoOs using a reach weapon without risking your d6-based hps too much while still being able to toss eldritch blasts on your action. I'm not sure how well the AoOs combine with the incantation that lets you use your eldritch blast via melee attack but it doesn't particularly hurt the character.

I'm sure someone will provide an in depth analysis of other feat chains proving EWP+CR is highly sub-optimal but IMO a warlock that tosses EBs on his action *and* gets in a number of AoOs throughout a fight would be a fairly welcome addition to most parties I've been in. For the cost of two feats you can pretty much count on 1-2 free shots every encounter, which over the long haul counteracts the low BAB, and the *threat* of the warlock's AoOs should cause the opponents to change tactics.
 

kigmatzomat said:
I haven't studied warlocks too intently but as brehobit pointed out a warlock can drop your stronger stats into the physical categories without much degradation to incantations. So assuming you have a moderately buff warlock, you can get in a number of AoOs using a reach weapon without risking your d6-based hps too much while still being able to toss eldritch blasts on your action. I'm not sure how well the AoOs combine with the incantation that lets you use your eldritch blast via melee attack but it doesn't particularly hurt the character.

I'm sure someone will provide an in depth analysis of other feat chains proving EWP+CR is highly sub-optimal but IMO a warlock that tosses EBs on his action *and* gets in a number of AoOs throughout a fight would be a fairly welcome addition to most parties I've been in. For the cost of two feats you can pretty much count on 1-2 free shots every encounter, which over the long haul counteracts the low BAB, and the *threat* of the warlock's AoOs should cause the opponents to change tactics.
There's no doubt that for situations where you can fling the chain around and get some additional hits, that you're getting your money's worth with what is probably the game's most powerful weapons. Nevertheless, since warlocks are so specialised into damage-dealing already, I would think the feats would be better spent branching out to give the party some other sort of aid, perhaps taking Extra Invocation. Also, feats to boost Eldritch Blast are always nice. There's little doubt that the warlock would enjoy being able to Maximise his eldritch blast 3/day with the Maximise Spell-Like-Ability feat at level 6, or take Weapon Focus and Improved Critical (and maybe specialisation) in ranged spells. As a first level human, that +1 to my touch attack roll is going to make a big difference as to whether I hit, and the extra invocation would double my variety. Thus, I'd probably leave the spiked-chain to the fighter (unless I was in the all-warlock party suggested in the Would this work? thread, in which case go for it!)
 

The errata isn't out yet, but this is a list of questions and answers from the Wizards boards, answered by the author (I think it was Keith Baker -- was he one of the authors? anyway ):

Quote:
Just wanted to give you all a heads-up on a couple of pieces of errata for the warlock. We're not quite ready to turn out the full errata file for Complete Arcane (there's always some, as you know), but there are two things that have really been bugging me and I want to let you know about them.

1. Eldritch blast is an invocation and is subject to the arcane spell failure chance of any other invocation if you wear medium or heavy armor. On page 8, under Warlock Invocations, ignore the bold header "Invocations and Eldritch Blast."

2. Eldritch blast is equivalent to a 1st-level spell (or the spell level equivalent of any blast shape or eldritch essence you attach to it). So, you'll be able to use the Empower Spell-like Ability, etc., feats to modify your eldritch blast if you wish. On page 7, under Eldritch Blast, 2nd paragraph, just change the last sentence to read, "An eldritch blast is the equivalent of a 1st-level spell, unless modified by a blast shape or eldritch essence."

Sorry about the confusion; we'll have our standard errata information assembled soon, and we'll make it available as quickly as possible. I just wanted to get this in front of you folks, since you've been asking a lot of questions about it.

Q: Is an Eldritch Blast not affected by an Essence or Shape defeated by a Minor Globe of Invulnerability?

A: Yep. If you're a warlock and you're worried about running into a Minor Globe of Invulnerability, make sure you learn a blast shape or eldritch essence that will crank up the effective level.

Q: Is applying an eldritch essence / eldritch blast a free action?

A: Modifying your eldritch blast with a blast shape or eldritch essence is so free, you can do it at no cost at all. It's like the decision of how much you want to Power Attack for. I wouldn't even dignify it by calling it a free action.

Q: Can the feat Supernatural Transformation from Savage Species change the Warlocks Eldritch Blast and Invocations from Spell Like Abilities to Supernatural Abilities?

A: I chatted with the developers, and we're of the opinion that the term "innate" in the description of the Supernatural Transformation feat means "spell-like abilities you got because of your race, not because of any class choices you might have made." So that would rule out the warlock's invocations and eldritch blast.

That said, we're not 100% sure that the feat would necessarily be broken for the warlock. The warlock is a pretty feat-thirsty class, so there is a real cost in picking this up to make your eldritch blast SR-proof, when you've got an eldritch essence available that can do the same thing. But just to be on the cautious side, we're saying no. Rule Zero us on this one if you like.

(As an aside...we've discovered that the word "innate" is one of those flavor words that often carries a mechanical connotation, and it's not always meant to. So be careful in trying to extend this particular ruling to other "innate" things, because "innate" seems to mean different things in different contexts.)

Q: Would Practiced Spellcaster allow for Blast damage progression?

A: I think it should, but I doubt that the language of the feat and eldritch blast description specifically allow it. (If eldritch blast were written in such a way that it dealt damage based on the warlock's caster level, it would be fine. But the damage is based on the warlock's class level. While those two things are almost always going to be the same, you have to take a pretty liberal interpretation to let Practiced Spellcaster work on eldritch blast.)

Q: If chainmail (medium armor) were made of mithril (thereby considered light), would arcane spell failure apply?

A: Nope--it's light armor now, so the warlock casts in that mithral chainmail just fine. I expect that many high-level warlocks will take the Battle Caster feat and buy themselves mithral full plate armor.

Q: How do meta-spell-like feats work for the Warlock?

A: That's why we fixed the warlock's base eldritch blast as the equivalent of a 1st-level spell. You can use Empower SLA and Quicken SLA based on that 1st-level spell. Works just like it says in the MM or in CA. You get 3 uses per day, and it's basically a free action to say, "This eldritch blast is empowered," and deal your extra damage. They're a lot like the Sudden Metamagic feats that way.

Q: What is the CASTER level of Eldritch Blast?

A: Caster level of eldritch blast = your warlock class level.

Spell level of eldritch blast = 1st or the level equivalent of the essence or shape you use to modify it.

Q: In reference to the “Imbue Item” ability, if you have the feat "Scribe Scroll" and you create an Arcane Scroll with any spell of your choosing can a Wizard learn this as a new spell and/or copy it into his spell book? Since the Warlock doesn't know any spells, then what is to prevent him/her to try to imbue an arcane scroll with a brand new spell. Something a wizard would typically have to research to get. Assuming that you follow the guidelines for spell creation.

A: I chatted with the developers about the Imbue Item-Scribe Scroll trick for giving the warlock nigh-infinite spell diversity, and we realized pretty quick that it's not broken.
Here's why:

1. The warlock is supposed to be able to read off other class's scrolls and use their spell trigger items by means of a great Use Magic Device check.

2. Given that, the warlock can just *buy* scrolls or staffs at full market price and use them easily anyway.

3. Therefore, Imbue Item really only gives you the opportunity to expend a feat choice and buy one category of magic items at half-price... spending some XP and some time to manufacture your price break.

4. If you were scribing scrolls of interesting spells your wizard buddy would want to learn, you could have just *bought* your wizard buddy a scroll of that spell and given it to him. You didn't need to make it yourself, really.

So, it's a good tactic, and some smart play, but it's not as crazy as it might seem at first glance.

Q: Can the Invocations "Beguiling Influence and Leaps and Bounds" stack with themselves? In other words, by the legalistic meaning of the bonus (unnamed) some folks think that the Warlock can cast this Invocation over & over on himself, gaining a +6 each time. I know that's wrong, but please make it Official?

A: You're right, it's only one at a time.

Q: Is the statements on page 18 of the Complete Arcane intended to prohibit a Warlock who enters a Prestige Class that adds +1 to his caster level to not allow him to gain access to high grade invocations?

A: The intention is that when a warlock's "+1 level of spellcasting class" improves, he should gain access to better invocations as if a non-multiclassed warlock would have at that level.

Q: Does using Hideous Blow in melee provoke an attack of oppertunity?

A: Hideous Blow does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Andy Collins will clarify that in an upcoming Sage Advice.

Q: How does the feat Quicken Spell Like Ability interact with a Warlocks Eldritch Blast? What about Eldritch Blast in combination with Blast Shape and Essence Invocations? What about his other Invocations?

A: It's our intent that you should be able to take the feat Quicken Spell-like Ability (eldritch blast) and use it on any variation of your eldritch blast you care to use. So if you brimstone-up one blast, spear-up another blast, and spear-up and brimstone-up a third blast, it's all the same for your QSLA (eldritch blast) feat. Of coure, the level equivalents of some of your better eldritch blast-modifying invocations might make it possible for you to Quicken a basic blast but not a blast using your best modifiers--but we think that's a cool decision to make.

Q: What does happen if a Warlock changes his alignment to a restricted alignment?

A: I think I'd treat it like the monk's alignment restriction. If you change alignment to something incompatible with warlock, you can't gain more levels in warlock, but you keep all your warlock abilities. (If you change it back again later, I suppose you could resume your advancement.)

Q: At this point, what I'm most curious about is when we can expect the errata to be officially released.

A: (As of 7/21/05) Pretty soon, I believe. I just saw a draft circulating today in the office. It's a pretty light errata document (we only errata things we *really* want/need to fix, not every typo we see).

From:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5443436&postcount=307
 

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