An Old Curmudgeon's Unsolicited Advice

[LrdApoc]

You know, I've done a pretty good job of avoiding your posts Mythus, not because I find your advice annoying, nor because I think it is without merit, however I think Liquide's comments do a fair and even summary of my thoughts as well.

It is one thing to suggest ways an artist can improve.. it is quite another to tell someone they need to go to art school. That implies they need to be taught because they are not up to your standards.

Opinions are fine, but you yourself state you are not an artist.. Each of us goes through certain processes to create our work. I hold two jobs, and I do the art as a creative release.. do I have formal art training?? Yes I do, am I a professional? No.. however it is far harder to give useful critical advice and observations than it is to just bash someone..

Another thing I notice looking back tohrough your threads.. you are asking those you are criticising to do work for you. That's just damned odd.. to expect someone you tear.. though your blunt, tactless tone may be unintentional.. to help you.

I do not want to get involved in personal attacks, as I don't think this is the place for it, but keep in mind that written language is much like artwork.. the reader/viewer brings his own prejudice with him when he reads.. Smileys do not diffuse blunt or callous statements.

Good luck with your artist search. I think you will have trouble finding someone who pleases you.

 

[alsih2o]

Re: One More Item for Eosin

People post their art here for comment, criticism, and advice. That is what I've provided.

here you are incorrect. at least as far as calling what you are doing criticism.

in my experience (9 years of various art school experience, and 20 years of selling art, despite your assumptions in an earlier thread that i was too young) criticism comes in the form of exact example and recommendation. a critic of a n artist should be able to point to a specific example in A work or AN artist work and expound upon a method for improving it, usually from a point of greater experience. you, however, are making broad general strokes freely and without specific advice on improvement.

i am sure you see your generalities as critic, but they are simply bush-league pablum spouted at random, they lack the specificty of intent that marks good critique.

pointing out the subtle changes in tone or shadow that happen in a given work during certain lighting conditions or lighting angles is critique. exacting instruction in anatomical consistency and variety is critique.

what you are offering is obviously broad and often incorrect generalities that you obviously haven't followed yourself. any teacher worth their weight in HB pencil will tell you that ANYONE can learn to draw, ANYONE. it is simply the expressionof ideas thru symbolic marks, just like writing your name. so i ask, where is your work?

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I'm not doing my site to impress people, I'm doing it to inform people.

Good call. I'm informed, and unimpressed. You have succeeded.

For your information, I write to communicate. That is my criteria. If being strictly grammatically correct gets in the way, then I shall err on the side of clarity.

we are speaking, of the clarity then, of failing to capitalize your sentences and ending them with two periods..

Damning it for not being a finished website is a lot like condeming a thorougbred's form when it's an embryo.

No, it's damning the owner for throwing a still-born foal onto the track and expecting it to run with the thoroughbreds. The owner should have enough sense to let the foal mature under the guidance of a skilled trainer before a public showing.

And where did you get the idea I had the money to hire a web site designer? All my own work, with the aid of Adobe GoLive 4. Give me the credit. Give me the blame. I am responsible for content and design.

Nothing about your site gave me the idea you had hired a web designer.

Umbrage works so much better when you know what you're taking umbrage about.

Wiser words were never spoken. Your art credentials, please?

I have lived many lives, and in those lives I have seen many who never lived up to their potential... And all the times I've died before have not made dying again any the easier.

People, I know that most of you reading this can hear the music. Now is the time to start moving to that music. Now is the time to learn how to dance.

Now is the time to start moving slowly and cautiously away from the nice man.

 

[Buttercup]

When I was an undergraduate, I encountered several professors who thought that cruelty was a good mode of criticism. On occaision, I was the object of their scorn, and other times it was heaped on someone else. In my experience, even if the advice given was good, the cruelty and deirsion it was cloaked in negated the benefit. Mythusmage, although you say you are trying to help, your tone detracts from your message. You have no doubt hurt people needlessly.

It also seems to me that constructive criticism would be more useful if it were directed to a specific individual. "Person X, your work with shading is excellent, but perhaps you need to work on proportions," or "person Y, you draw very good faces, but your hands need a bit of work. Specifically, you don't seem to get the thumbs quite right." Making a blanket statement that the people who post art here aren't even qualified to be graffiti artists is not only cruel, it is useless. It also makes people less likely to take seriously any useful criticism or suggestions you offer.

 

[the Jester]

I don't frequent the art boards and have never posted my art here (I don't have a scanner readily available), but wow, lemme tell ya- some of the art here is fabulous, some sucks.

That said, I'd never say, "Hey, guys, your art mostly sucks!" That's mean-spirited. I understand that sometimes harshness can be an artist's best friend (only sometimes, mind you), and I understand that you're only trying to help, Mythusmage. However, I suggest you be more specific, more polite, and more considerate in your feedback. Try saying it nicely before you say it nastily.

 

[S'mon]

Wow - I just came across this thread after reading MythusMage's incredibly bad piece of 'lizardman' prose. If that's what he considers an example of his best work, I shudder to think what his general standard is! But it's ok to be untalented - it's just hilarious he not only sees fit to slag off all the artists here (some of whom are highly skilled professionals, the rest mostly talented amateurs, almost always fun to look at) but he also holds up as an example of his own 'art' some of the worst writing I've ever seen!

 

[Simplicity]

Hmmm... You're either not a teacher, or you're a very bad one.
If you intend to teach someone something, you either need
to support what they're doing right or criticise what they're
doing wrong. If you're going to criticise, tact helps.

Let's turn the tables though...

I know it could look better, but my focus is on the content.

Like the Green Masked Basilisk, the ONLY real piece of content on your site?

I ignored your monster before, as I found it to be poorly done and uninteresting... but now for the criticism you thrive on.

Ever hear of a gaze attack? A gaze attack is not ranged touch.
If the creature is shooting a ray of some sort, then you use ranged touch... but it's supposed to be like a basilisk, right?

Is it really only using one claw? That would look pretty stupid...
Is the claw attack a combined 2 claw attack or does it get another attack for its other claw? Or does it perhaps only have one hand?

It's rake attack has a critical on 16, AND it gets x3 damage? Are you kidding or do you just not understand the rules of the game? Combining this attack with the gaze attack probably makes this creature greater than a CR 3. But that's okay because I just love the image of a small-sized creature "raking" a party's fighter... BTW, don't let a thing like other creatures already having the rake ability for back legs stop you from creating a new way to do rake... It just makes things more fun that way.

It can be taken as a familiar too. That's a nice touch. I always wanted a CR 3-4 creature as a familiar. I think I'll take one at level 1. That'll be nice since it'll give me all the benefits of other familiars (+2 to a stat like the toad), PLUS it gives me a bonus save too! And it's great in battle! Bonus... And it just takes me double the amount of time to get one? I think I can wait...

The huge amount of feats is nice too. A bit much for a 2 HD creature perhaps?

When you get right down to it, html does not have the tools for proper layout. Which means text suffers. With even a basic word processor there are tools available to produce a document that makes the typical text web page look sick.

Yep. Especially when you suck at HTML. Actually, HTML has
come a long way, and there are a number of ways to do
layout in HTML that DON'T look like someone threw up on your page... Frames are nice. Tables can be quite complex.

Don't blame your tools when you obviously have no idea
of how to use them.

As you love criticism, I hope you take my post in the same vein as your initial one. Remember, you can't get better without someone to demean your work.

 

[Malessa]

mythusmage

I'm sure you've heard the phrase, "Don't bite the hand that feeds you"?

You were moved to this thread because you were in need of art to help illustrate the site you wanted to create. I've seen your site (everyone starts somewhere, then builds on that, fine). I read your thread of needing the art and then responded (here we help and support one another, your among friends).

I drew up a very rough sketch, you commented honestly, which I respected and took under consideration. I had full intentions of following up with another drawing, eventually coloring to your satisfaction on PSP. Free of charge, because I love to draw, and help where I think help is needed and to challenge my skills.

Then THIS thread appears and 'OH MY'. If you wanted attention, well, you've certainly got it now.
I am not usually the type of person who doesn't follow up on something I'd say I would do, BUT........

Since I don't meet ANY requirements that YOU think an artist should have. For example, the last time I took any kind of art class was when it was required in the 6th grade. Don't plan on ever taking any extra art classes, because I guess I don't have my priorities straight according to you either.

Like; I'm a wife, mother of 2 boys first and foremost. Not only that, I homeschool them M-F, then I keep up the housework, cooking ect. THEN on Friday, Sat., and Sunday nights from 7pm-7am I'm pulling 12hr shifts in a factory, with little to no sleep durring the day. My husband works full time during the week and goes to school part time, we have one vehicle. I do art in my spare time, when I have it.

When I do offer my art work, it may not be good, it may not be bad. In either case, I'm doing it as a hobbie, as a favor, just because I enjoy it.

So when I read a thread like this. ( And let me sum it up, so that anyone who happens to be just getting in here.) That basically, everyone in here sucks, but even though we will never get anywhere without your advise, can we still draw for you even though we suck?

And YOU sir think your doing ME a favor. I've got a clue for you, 'YOUR FIRED', I can do much better utilizing my time for someone who would appriciate what I do. Than working a lifetime trying to please someone that has no knowledge of art or values to begin with. I feel sorry for you. Have a nice day!

 

[Piratecat]

Okay, this sort of pugnaciousness has gone far enough. Alan, your method of delivering criticism needs some work unless you're eager to self-destructively alienate yourself from everyone's good graces. Please keep that in mind for next time.

Thread closed.