An Old Curmudgeon's Unsolicited Advice

[mythusmage]

Grazzt, how about sharing some of that art? You may have a career in the field. BTW, you never stop being an artist. (Think you've got a Green Masked Basilisk in you?)

Dragongirl, all my comments? Or are you feeling defensive? DG, All my advice is aimed at getting people to improve. If I have to be mean to get improvement, then I will be mean.

As an old saying goes, kindness carried to an extreme is cruelty.

 

[HellHound]

"Reinforcing a person's opinion of himself doesn't cut it."


HorseManure. Absolute HorseManure.

Insulting SOME people might make them strive harder, but insulting most people won't. Insulting everyone just makes you look like an a$$, and does nothing to make people improve.

If one was to insult a lot of people's work here, you will probably cow a bunch of them into not posting their work again, and thus into never getting any positive criticism again.

How does that make things better?

(Or do you believe that by shutting up the bad singers, you improve the good ones?)

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

PC, I'm no artist, and I know it.

Nor a web designer, nor a master of grammar and punctuation...

Though I am far too cruel to provide helpful criticism, those of you who wish to show the old curmudgeon some kindness will find ample fodder for comment at the "official" site of mythusmage.com.


Wulf

 

[Liquide]

By and large I like what I see here on this forum, but I do notice that a lot of the art posted here is amateur at best. Down right clunky at worst. I get the impression that most of the people displaying their work are self taught, and concentrate on fantasy subjects. If that's your bag, I wish you luck. But expanding your (artistic) horizons can be a big help.

Yes most of us are self-taught and we post in here since we want to improve, we neither want praise nor an axing that takes away all of love for what we do. I can only speak for myself but I can say I'm a happy amateur that don't draw for any other pleasure then to please myself, and aswell as any other person that might like what I do. Of course I do listen to what people say, but I seldom reply to something that is out of tact or just mean (since those posts/replies seldom, read never, helps me out to improve).

1. Art lessons. Lessons on composition, drawing, oils and acrylics. A good teacher can help a lot with animation and expression, bringing your art to life. Try other media as the mood takes you. Many community colleges offer art courses. Or see if you can find an artists' club or association.

Most of us are amateurs with full time jobs and doodle on the side when we have a moment to spare. We don't have time to find a mentor in real-life. The reason to why we post in here is to see if we can find a mentor or someone else that can comment and help us improve our style. I have don't found anyartist's club where I live, they are more common in a university and/or college so out of school it might be hard to find one, and finding time for it is an issue aswell.

2. Life studies. Studies of human and animal anatomy. Art using live models, clothed and nude. Knowing how real life people and animals are put together is a great help with fantasy races and beasts.

Well it is good advice, but most of us usually doodle at home and you usually end up drawing of the same stuff all the time. In my case I draw from my head and use my imagination and memory to figure out how to draw but that is just me.

3. Visits to your local museum of natural history. loads of things to draw there, and not just the animal displays. A good natural history museum will have displays for local minerals, fossils, geological formations, and so on and so forth.

As nice it would be to live near a natural history museum the closest I get is 3 hours with train, not everyone have the luxury of actually having such feat close to them. But this is good advice for anyone that do live near enough one.

4. To get good at showing animals in motion, get yourself a yearly membership at the local zoo. There is a big difference between a live tiger in mid-leap, and a mounted tiger posed in mid-leap. Learning how to show a live tiger in mid-leap goes a long way in learning how to show a dragon in mid-leap.

Better solution is either a Video or DVD disc thatyou can set to [freeze frame] if you don't have access to a local Zoo (which I don't have), best way however is to grasp the anatomy of how muscles flex aswell.

5. Bring your art to life. Learn how to show expression. Learn how to "animate" your work, make it seem as if it could literally step off the canvas and walk about.

Why do you think we amateurs post in here, we want critisicm (that doesn't mean praise nor axing) that will help us improve to the level in which we can do this trhough the help of other souls.

6. Get in the habit of doodling. Doodle when you're waiting for someone. Doodle during a business meeting. Doodle for family and friends. Doodle for strangers you meet. Carry a sketch pad along with pencils and pens so you can doodle, draw, or sketch whenever you feel the urge.

As much as I would like to this it is not quite possible, most of us have work and other stuff that needs us to focus on what we do for the moment. I however have done this while I have been unemployed since I had to activate myself, and it do helps a lot. Just remember it is not possible for everyone to do this (and don't do it at school since it will affect your grades, trust me I speak from experience).

7. Whenever you feel tempted to draw something, give in. The opportunity may not pass your way again.

The best things comes when you do not try to create a masterpiece so this is actually a solid advice.

8. Get in the habit of redoing work that doesn't quite suit what you want. But, always keep your eye open for anything that might be better than what you'd originally envisioned. In other words, keep your eye on the goal, while keeping your eye out for unforseen possibilities.

This is actually one of the better things you have said, but I like to add one thing. Make copies of outlined sketches and try out detail on them before you apply them on the orignial drawing, since then you don't have to destroy the orignial to try something out.

9. Grow a thick skin. You're always going to run into people like me. People who will tell you your wondrous work is not as good as your friends say it is. People who will get on your case about improving your art, your technique. (I was going to say "encourage" or "urge", but they weren't strong enough to get my message across.) We're not being mean, we really do want to see you do better.

I have run into people like you, they usually dun really care for why the person in question (e.g. me) actually draw. If I would get a penny for every time someone says "that just sucks you should really don't do this" or just says "cool" for that matter; it doesn't help me improve, nor encourage me to draw more, well the "cool" comment is always nice to get but I want critisicm just not something that just say "I like" or "you suck" and most people who just say those things (cool/suck) never really care about illustrations.

10. Make art your life. You want to be a professional artist, you have to keep practicing, keep training, keep improving. In addition, get in touch, and stay in touch, with your local artistic community. Not just your local Internet or common interest community, but your local geographical community. You will meet more than your share of flakes, but you'll also meet folks who can and will help immensely.

Well if you refer to us in here, some of us are pros, others like me doodle on our spare time and don't really have the goal to become a pro, just to improve our doodling. So when you're assuming that everyone that draws want to become a Pro I think your are way off. I myself have no urge to become a Pro, I know what I'm good at and it is not drawing, I just enjoy drawing.

11. Never reject advice out of hand. Even my advice. You'll find that most people showing an interest in your work want to help you become a better artist. Some of them will even know what they're talking about.

Your advice might be good, but the way you present it in is totally out of tact, it is usually a better way to actually help people not to tell them that they suck, or should go back to art school for the next 5 years. We just want solid suggestions without getting flamed and/or insulted from advice. To be friendly and kind is better then insulting at all times.

To be mean, cruel, nasty, unkind, rotten, and even (heaven forbid) helpful, I have to say, most people posting art on this forum couldn't get a job as the graffiti artist for a pre-teen gang. But, at the same time, most of the people posting art on this forum show promise. It is that promise I'm hoping to encourage. Becoming a good artist aint easy, it takes a lot of hard work and perseverance. But it has rewards unlike any other human endeavour. Keep drawing, keep painting, keep improving and your work will pay off. Often in ways you never expected.

And this I will not even comment on, it is one of the most insulting things I have heard in quite a while and while you might think in this way, telling people they suck is insulting and can make people feel very bad about themselves, not everyone is a person that has a total lack of empathy like yourself (or so it seems from your posts in this forum).

My best to you all.

Well my suggestions is to go get websters and check up the word critisicm and empathy, then we can have a discussion again.

 

[Eosin the Red]

Nor a web designer, nor a master of grammar and punctuation...

Though I am far too cruel to provide helpful criticism, those of you who wish to show the old curmudgeon some kindness will find ample fodder for comment at the "official" site of mythusmage.com.


Wulf

Good call.

I think Mythusmage.com should fire thier web designer or at least find someone who understands the basics of design. Here is a hint on web design, go buy a book or take a class and come back after you have done that. If you want you can submit designs to me and I will tell what I think of them. Some people just should not do design and to be mean, cruel, nasty, unkind, rotten, and even (heaven forbid) helpful, I have to say, the people designing mythusmage.com don't even muster up to your average geocities pre-teen 'I love N'Sync' types. (I left off the backhand compliment). It is impossible to take someone serious in any profession when they are unwilling to devote some effort. Mythusmage.com is sloppy and thrown up in ten minutes, that speaks volumes about thier products.

Checks PCs instruction. Hmmmm, nope nothing personal. No profanity.

 

[mythusmage]

At least Liquide is taking issue with the advice, and not just with the perceived tone.

(Some people are so eager to take offense.)

Speaking of the tone. How do people know I'm being harsh? You're not with me, you cannot hear my voice or see my face. I could be using an encouraging "tone" for all you know. The written word does not reveal its tone as easily as some would think.

BTW, Liquide, get your butt outside and draw what you see. Imagination is all fine and dandy, but drawing from life is what gives you a good foundation. If a three hour train ride is the cost of doing some sketches and studies at the local natural history museum, you take the train ride. Don't have the time to draw, sketch, and paint? Then you make the time. You want to be a real artist, you make the sacrifices. There is no way around it.

You can't be an artist and remain an amateur. Eventually you must become a professional. Take a professional attitude, do professional quality work. For many it is hard work, and not all ever make it. But when it finally "clicks" it makes the struggle, the sacrifice, the labor worth it.

For your information, I care. If I did not care I wouldn't write. If I saw no potential in a person I would say nothing, but let him fade back into the mass of humanity. If I see room for improvement, and I see that you can improve, I shall say to you, "You can do better." I will not tell you what you want to hear, for that only leads to mediocrity..

Call me cruel. Call me harsh. But never, ever say that I am uncaring. I have lived many lives, and in those lives I have seen many who never lived up to their potential. I have seen too many wasted, squandered lives to ever want to see another. Be there anyway I can get someone to realize their dream, I will use it. I care, I must care, for if I didn't I would have died long years ago. And all the times I've died before have not made dying again any the easier.

(Besides, I haven't seen The Two Towers or Return of the King yet. I want to be around when those films get released.)

People, I know that most of you reading this can hear the music. Now is the time to start moving to that music. Now is the time to learn how to dance.

Liquide, you have the talent, you have the potential. You can do better, and if I have anything to say about it, you will. I see a man tromping along a river and I know he can dance. That is my purpose here, to see people dance by the riverside, instead of merely plodding.

 

[mythusmage]

Nor a web designer, nor a master of grammar and punctuation...

Though I am far too cruel to provide helpful criticism, those of you who wish to show the old curmudgeon some kindness will find ample fodder for comment at the "official" site of mythusmage.com.


Wulf

Never critique when you're ticked off.

I'm not doing my site to impress people, I'm doing it to inform people. I don't do eye candy. For your information, I write to communicate. That is my criteria. If being strictly grammatically correct gets in the way, then I shall err on the side of clarity.

Besides, it is a work in progress. It will change as time goes by. Damning it for not being a finished website is a lot like condeming a thorougbred's form when it's an embryo.

And where did you get the idea I had the money to hire a web site designer? All my own work, with the aid of Adobe GoLive 4. Give me the credit. Give me the blame. I am responsible for content and design.

Umbrage works so much better when you know what you're taking umbrage about.

 

[Eosin the Red]

I was avoiding directing it personally, so I aimed critism at mythusmage.com. Don't take it personally, I am offering you the exact same advise you offered others (in fact I pretty much quoted you). Websites are a form of art and graphics, some should be still born. Nobody came to you and asked you to critique their art, why is it bothersome when we critique that attempt at a website. It has told me all I need to know about products produced under that label. Personally, I would remove it or get it done by someone who knows what they are doing or read a book or take a class then come back and try again.

I ain't mad, but then I ain't an artist either.

 

[mythusmage]

I know it could look better, but my focus is on the content. So the appearance suffers. With luck I hope to have a site artist for Mythusmage soon, at which time its appearance will get better. All I can ask for is patience from my visitors.

When you get right down to it, html does not have the tools for proper layout. Which means text suffers. With even a basic word processor there are tools available to produce a document that makes the typical text web page look sick.

In time I will make PDFs available on my site. Then you'll see the difference.Till then know that I think the design could be better.

(A four year old iMac with 32 megs of physical ram does limit the tools you can use.)

 

[mythusmage]

One More Item for Eosin

People post their art here for comment, criticism, and advice. That is what I've provided.

If you don't want people looking in on your nighttime activities, don't leave the bedroom blinds up.