An Open Letter to Fantasy Flight and Cubicle 7 -- Cut the "Foreplay" and Give Us the Good Stuff

[Lord Mhoram]

For me, without Jedi, Star Wars is a pretty bland generic Space Opera setting that we have lots of. It loses part of what makes it special.

 

[TrippyHippy]

...and again, for me, making Jedi a 10-a-penny occurrence in a setting where they are supposed to be rare and mysterious robs the Jedi - and the Star Wars brand - of what makes them special. George Lucas found that out the hard way.

 

[innerdude]

But at the end of the day it should be up to each individual group on if Jedi are in the game or not. I don't like that FFG went ahead and made the decision for me. It doesn't just mean no PC Jedi but also not NPC Jedi or strong NPC Force users of other cultures.

First, as a general note, I'm actually mainly pissed at Cubicle 7 rather than Fantasy Flight. I haven't spent a single second of my time looking at Edge of the Empire, Fantasy Flight just happened to be the touchpoint for me making my argument--namely, that I think it's very, very risky to alienate potential buyers up front. You're risking their hard-earned loyalty, which will ultimately have a much more negative effect on revenue. You're risking that you'll sell more expansions to make up for those who won't buy the core system up front.

As far as Crothian's quote goes--This is EXACTLY my problem with the general mind set evidenced by FF and C7. It's not just about "Wah, I don't have my Precious PC build!"

It's about being able to TELL STORIES ABOUT INTERESTING ASPECTS OF THE UNIVERSE, and not having direct mechanical support to do so.

How is a GM, exactly, supposed to create adventures involving the Men of Rohan using the current One Ring materials?

"Well, you just don't go there."

Right. And the PCs will NEVER meet someone from Rohan either. Why? Well, because they can't, because the GM has no officially supported way of making one. So we're just supposed to adventure over the edge of the wild, and not go anywhere else in Middle Earth. You know. Because, like, Middle-Earth doesn't have a very interesting backstory or anything, you know, like the most voluminous written mythology in the history of fiction. And you know, the edge of the wild is totally where all of the cool stuff in Middle-Earth's past ages happened, right?

Simply put, this business model is a constraint to the kinds of stories I want to tell in these universes. My players can't adventure anywhere that doesn't have built-in mechanical support for the cultures in the One Ring. Oh sure, I can fake it. But that's really the point---why do I have to "fake it" in the first place? Oh that's right---so Cubicle 7 can try to sell me on some expansions I couldn't care less about, so they can string out their product line for however long they have to.

I LIKE The One Ring. I like the system, I like the way it works, I like the type of playstyle it engenders. But I don't want to tell stories over the edge of the wild, I want to tell them in the places I find compelling, and with interesting "hooks."

Releasing stuff piecemeal feels manipulative, and creates a definite sense of ill will towards the companies that do it.

 

[Morrus]

namely, that I think it's very, very risky to alienate potential buyers up front. You're risking their hard-earned loyalty, which will ultimately have a much more negative effect on revenue. You're risking that you'll sell more expansions to make up for those who won't buy the core system up front.

I, on the other hand, appreciate companies who take risks and not churn out the same thing we've already bought over and over again.

They played it safe this time, though. The didn't take the risk of including pages of Jedi material a bunch of people don't want. Consequently, I bought it (unlike Star Wars d20 which I never did) and they gained my hard earned loyalty.

Every choice is a risk. Include something, don't include something. This particular choice works for me. They spent that valuable page space on material I want. Excellent!

 

[Morrus]

Want! Demand! Geek-squeek!

The original Star Wars trilogy wasn't proliferated with Jedi - hence "Return of the Jedi" got it's name.

The Edge of Empire is aimed clearly at running Hans Solo type narratives, which I believe is pretty popular in itself. If they didn't have Force sensitive options, the OP may have a point, but the fact is the game is being faithful to the setting where Jedi are so rare after being hunted to a point of extinction, that the people living in it think that the Force is just some "hokey religion".

They'll make new games with different aspects in good time, but in my view the D20 versions of the Star Wars games were deeply flawed on the grounds that nobody wanted to play anything that wasn't a Jedi! And Star Wars has more to offer than that - a point that may be shown if people actually play the new game with an open mind. Star Wars doesn't have to be a power fantasy to be cool.

I 100% agree! Star Wars is more interesting to me when dozens of cartoon Jedi Drizzts aren't clogging up the place and bouncing around and demanding all the attention. Jedi are more common than bartenders! Star Wars is rich. Hutts, smugglers, storm troopers, star destroyers, Death Stars, wookies - there's so much there!

And the Jedi fans can get their own giant 400 page book, with more stuff than they can shake an army of purple bouncing muppets with a pink lightsabers at!

 

[delericho]

For me, there are two things that a "Star Wars" RPG needs to get right: lightsaber battles (and, by extension, Jedi), and starfighter combat.

If a particular group don't want to include Jedi in their game, then that's their prerogative, but it's trivial for them to remove them from the game. It's much harder for a group to add Jedi if the rules don't support them.

And this is, by my count, the seventh distinct "Star Wars" RPG (WEG 1st Ed, 2nd Ed, and "2nd Ed Revised and Expanded", WotC SW d20, SW "Revised and Expanded", and Saga Edition). We do not need a new edition.

Now that absolutely does not mean they shouldn't make a new game. There's evidently a demand, and by all accounts they've done a good job. But, to produce a Star Wars game and then leave one of the most iconic elements of the setting unsupported? That seems... odd.

All IMO, of course.

 

[Crothian]

This isn't the same as asking why Yoda and Obi Wan aren't playable out of the box.

You can start the game as a force user, but don't pretend the game is somehow deficient because you aren't Mace gawddamned Windu from character creation.

It is deficient. It's not just Mace Windu you can't play, it is any Jedi. A GM can't have them as an NPC so it's no Jedi in the setting at all. People keep harking back to the original Trilogy as if this game was published in 1986. It is 2013 and there is lot more to Star Wars then the original Trilogy and the game includes some of that. It is a huge book and to make space for Jedi all they needed to do was cut the Force user non Jedi section.

 

[fuzzlewump]

...and again, for me, making Jedi a 10-a-penny occurrence in a setting where they are supposed to be rare and mysterious robs the Jedi - and the Star Wars brand - of what makes them special. George Lucas found that out the hard way.

I can't buy into this or similar arguments because FFG isn't making some stand and saying Jedi aren't included as to avoid a too many Jedi problem. The Jedi are coming out. They've simply set a Mace Windu time bomb that serves only to disappoint both parties, that is, the people who don't want Jedi and would be upset at their inclusion (apparently a real demographic?) and the people who think releasing a Star Wars game without Jedi is beyond any excuse.

 

[MatthewJHanson]

...and again, for me, making Jedi a 10-a-penny occurrence in a setting where they are supposed to be rare and mysterious robs the Jedi - and the Star Wars brand - of what makes them special. George Lucas found that out the hard way.

You mean the way that made him buckets full of money?

Say what you want about midi-chlorians, from a business perspective they were extremely successful, and the I'm guessing that most everybody reading this thread has paid money to see them in one way or another.

And FFG is making business decisions too. They're very good at managing licensed properties, and they know what they're doing. I'm guessing they know that individual books get fewer customers as the line progresses, so they're saving the big guns last. (In other words if they released Jedi first and Scoundrels second, they'd sell a lot less of the Scoundrels book than the way their doing it.)

And since it is a business decisions, if you don't like it, the best thing you can do is vote with your wallet.

 

[Morrus]

You mean the way that made him buckets full of money?

Actually, he's on record as being really upset how the fans reacted to the prequels, and that being the driving reason behind him getting out of it. He did find out the hard way; the end result was not what he wanted. He feels he was forced out of his own toybox.

George Lucas “Retires”, Blames Fans For Crushing His Spirit To Make Another Star Wars Film

Apparently, all the bitching we do about the prequels and the changes George Lucas made to the original Star Wars films actually hits home. He’s retiring from blockbusters and vows to never make another Star Wars movie because fanboys have scared him off.

Speaking with the New York Times, Lucas claims that he’s retiring from blockbusters with the release of Red Tails to focus on small “personal” films.

“I’m retiring,” Lucas said. “I’m moving away from the business, from the company, from all this kind of stuff.”

Of course, he went on to say that he isn’t ruling out a 5th Indiana Jones movie if it ever does move forward. So the notion that he’s retiring may be a little premature.

As for Star Wars, Lucas commented on the widespread criticism he received over the years regarding the numerous revisions he made to the original trilogy—a wound that was re-opened recently with the release of the Blu-ray boxed set.

“On the Internet, all those same guys that are complaining I made a change are completely changing the movie,” Lucas says, referring to fans who, like the dreaded studios, have done their own forcible re-edits. “I’m saying: ‘Fine. But my movie, with my name on it, that says I did it, needs to be the way I want it.’ ”

As for the possibility of another Star Wars movie, Lucas had this to say:

“Why would I make any more when everybody yells at you all the time and says what a terrible person you are?”

You can see that here: http://nerdapproved.com/movies/geor...ng-his-spirit-to-make-another-star-wars-film/

And there's a NYT article, too: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/m...-tails.html?pagewanted=3&_r=1&ref=global-home

He ain't happy.