Anachronisms in Fantasy

[Dannyalcatraz]

If you enjoy anachronistic fantasy, you might check out Harry Turtledove's "Darkness" books...a fantastical re-imagining of WW2.

Trains are replaced by ley-line carts, tanks by Armored Behemoths, planes by mounted firebreathing dragons, and the main weapons are magically charged staves that shoot beams...

And there is even a "Final Solution" and "Manhattan Project"...

 

[Starman]

No I'm not, I'm saying that I think it's poor design. Or, if you prefer, design not to my liking, and I've argued my case on why I think that.

I want to be clear about what you are saying. You are saying that you think that this particular feature of Eberron is not simply something that is not to your taste; it is a poor design decision. Is that what you are saying?

Starman

 

[Nuclear Platypus]

Specific examples; the magic wand versus magic machine gun or magic carpet versus magic jetpack examples I cited earlier. Wands and flying carpets have mythology backing them up, and strong associations with magic which contemporary devices such as machine guns and jetpacks don't share.

As far as high technology goes, I was using it as a way of describing "technology too advanced to believably fit in a pseudo-medieval D&D setting in any prominent way without challenging suspension of disbelief or being considered lame". What this constitutes depends on the person - for me, tanks being common is kind of lame. A single gnomish tank as an oddity somewhere in the world is no problem though.

I am not in any way trying to bring religion into this but merely referencing 2 religious texts which have had some effect on the original game.

The Hindu holy text (Vedas?) has references to weapons being rather similar to rockets and a few other smart weapons used in a battle between Ravana and Rama. Similarly, there is a suggestion that the fiery chariot that carried Elijah to heaven was a spacecraft (based on its description).

Besides, having war elephants or a similar war machine isn't that much different than a tank. Both have exhaust tho the tank doesn't usually leave behind 'land mines'.

In any case, how does the quote go?

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." ?

It doesn't matter (well shouldn't anyways) what a DM puts in their campaign so long as it remains internally consistent (or not if that's what is wanted) and everyone involved is having fun. It's a GAME people! You're gonna have fun and LIKE IT or else Big Brother sends in the Game Stormtroopers.

 

[drnuncheon]

I keep responding to rounser, which I realize now is the wrong thing to do, because he's not really interested in the topic of his thread. Let us just note that the original poster's idea, Eberron, and a great many other settings from Arcanum to Discworld do not have the 'Rounser Seal of Quality Mythic Resonance in Roleplaying Award (tm)' and move on. There's really no reason to spend pages arguing a matter of taste.

To make up for participating in this hijack, I want to recommend the Terry Pratchett Discworld series, which, by virtue of being satire as well as fantasy, have a lot of anachronisms, some viewed through a fantasy lens (like the cameras) and some not (later books include a printing press and a telegraph).

In a similar vein of 'modern world as viewed through a fantasy lens', there's Harry Turtledove's The Case of the Toxic Spell Dump, where flying carpets get stuck in traffic jams and the EPA regulates disposal of toxic magical waste.

In the 'some people like it so I really should mention it here' category, you could also try Piers Anthony's "Incarnations of Immortality" series, which features a world where magic and technology coexist - there's an advertising war between cars and carpets, for example. Your reaction to this series will be the same as your reaction to every other Piers Anthony series, so take that as you will.

I hope this has made up somewhat for my part in the threadjacking.

J

 

[Piratecat]

And on that note, please keep this thread both on topic and polite. Hint hint.

 

[Savage Wombat]

In addition, the things that cartoons like Bruno the Bandit use are not so much "anarchronistic" as "satirical" - that's the important element here. If you're going to include magical crystal ball TVs, do it as a commentary on TV and its viewers, not just as a background element. Have the PCs have to attack an evil broadcast network or something.

 

[Desdichado]

come back l*w m*gic lovers, all is forgiven

We haven't gone anywhere, we're just waiting for another opportunity to strike!

 

[Robbert Raets]

Fireball scrolls and an infinite Abyss would fit Middle Earth better than a magic train, according to me.

I love the smell of backfiring sarcasm in the morning.

>sigh<

 

[jester47]

And let's take this moment to clear up the definitions of the thread.

People are getting confused with the terms anachronism and non-sequitur.

An anachronism is somthing that is in the wrong place in a given timeline.

The knight in shining full plate armor in King Arthur's court is an anachronism because full plate would not exist for a long time. And King Arthur is often portrayed in a 1200's style, which again is an anachronism. A cleric in Krynn casting spells post cataclysm and pre war of the lance is an anachronism. These are things that are not out of place in their world but simply in the wrong period.

A non-sequitur is somthing that is out of place given certain conditions.

An SUV in greyhawk is a non-sequitur because it does not make sense given the assumptions given about greyhawk. That does not mean that it cannot be there, it just comes off as weird. The battleship presto pulls out of his hat in the D&D cartoon is a non-sequitur, completely unexpected because of the show ussually sticks to standard fantasy tropes (until presto pulls somthing out of his hat).

These can be used together well and fairly. Lets look at Blackmoor. The energy swords and laser guns and such are non-sequitur to a point, however they have an explanation in the world. Now they are not so much non-sequitur because one can understand that there is a source of technology somewhere else. But showing up with an energy sword before the guy with the frogs appears would be an anachronism.

To answer the original question: Lone Wolf - Non-sequiturs and Anachronisms can work if done right and carefully. If you are going for Bizzare, don't explain anything. However, if you say that there is a world where the bazzar is inside and illusions are sent to crystals that people can watch in their homes, you would curb the non-sequitur factor a bit. Anacronisms are easy to avoid because you are building the timeline to the world.

So in short the way to do it is: If you are not using this world, don't worry about anachronisms but give some explanation to the non-sequiturs.

Aaron.

 

[Robbert Raets]

Besides, having war elephants or a similar war machine isn't that much different than a tank. Both have exhaust tho the tank doesn't usually leave behind 'land mines'.

Heh.

In any case, how does the quote go?
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." ?

I thought it was "Any Technology distinguishable from Magic is insufficiently advanced"?