And the mystery race is...hated

[Elphilm]

the races are cool, I just dont think its good for Core.

Keep in mind, though, that the intention is to expand on the idea of "core" in 4E. If you apply the new approach to 3E, the 3E PHB2 classes would be just as core as fighters and clerics, for example. I think it's safe to assume that the 4E PHB2 and PHB3 are going to include some races and classes that are more exotic than the current 3E core - yet those races and classes will be just as "core" as the stuff in the first PHB.

Given this approach, I don't see anything wrong with tossing an exotic race or two into the first PHB. Does that make sense?

 

[GVDammerung]

My biggest problem with it is one of convenience. This is the first time in the history of D&D that I don't feel comfortable with turning absolutely everything in the PHB loose with the players, and that I couldn't find everything in the PHB usable in almost any D&D campaign I'd choose to run. The PHB will be sufficiently "non-vanilla" that I feel like I'll have to have a list saying, "you can't use this, this, and this in my new campaign" instead of saying, "you can use the PHB, and these parts of the following supplement books."

Emphasis added. This is the crux of the matter IMO.

4e is becoming more specific in its presentation and less general. Less a generic rules set to run any old homebrew D&D games and more a rules set that has its own flavor but which can, by stripping that flavor out, still run any old homebrew D&D games. The move from the general to the more specific is, as quoted above, a first in a core rules presentation.

Personally, I do not care for the trend.

While this 4e-ism will not "ruin" 4e, enough of these sort of nicks and cuts - the force fed flavor - may.

 

[Derren]

Why are dragonborn more specific than elves? Because they don't look human? The culture of elves or any other non human core race is as alien as the one from dragonborns so there is no difference except looks. Also having elves gives the game a LotR feeling while lizard people or dragon people are not so restricting but also not completely unknown in the fantasy genre.

 

[wedgeski]

Personally, I do not care for the trend.

A trend based on hearsay and anecdotal reports, though. My own personal view is that dragonborn are no more out of place in 4ed than half-orcs were, to me, out of place in 3ed.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Why are dragonborn more specific than elves? Because they don't look human? The culture of elves is as alien as the one from dragonborns so there is no difference except looks. Also having elves gives the game a LotR feeling while lizard people or dragon people are not so restricting but also not completely unknown in the fantasy genre.

LoTR is one of the core subsets.

As are all the clones; Shanrara, Midkemia, Forgotten Realms, etc...

Dragonborn on the other hand, even though they've made a game apperance, not quite so much.

 

[SteveC]

I believe I read that Races of the Dragon was one of the highest selling Races books. Very generally, anything with Dragon in the title will outsell anything without Dragon in the title. Or at least adding Dragon to the title increases sales in and of itself. I can't find the exact quote...

Well I stand corrected.

I remember the discussion of "dragon" and "magic" being titles that spawned additional sales, so I'm not exactly certain whether it's the name or the concept behind the name.

I think it's interesting, as some others have pointed out, that 4E is becoming less generic and more focused towards a specific playstyle. I am starting to echo the sentiment that 4E will be similar to 2E in that a lot of people did a lot of houseruling of the core material to suit their own tastes. I wonder if this is actually intentional?

That's a great opportunity for third party companies to make adventures and supplemental materials that are more traditional. It's kind of strange how in 3X we had all of these exotic third party D20/OGL books, but in 4E it's like they've become the default world.

Interesting times.

--Steve

 

[Sunderstone]

Keep in mind, though, that the intention is to expand on the idea of "core" in 4E. If you apply the new approach to 3E, the 3E PHB2 classes would be just as core as fighters and clerics, for example.

I much prefer the Duskblade, Dragon Shaman, etc as supplemental material as they were presented. You make sense btw, my point is just that the flavor is lost the more they try to expand the "Core". YMMV.

One of the worst things that happened in 3E was too many splatbooks be it races or classes. The good thing is you could ignore those books that you felt were unbalanced, not the right flavor, cheesy, etc.
By incorporating the splat material into the Core, you cant ignore it. Future products will use it more as well.

On a slight tangent.... Its bad enough that I have to pay $30+ for the average HC, a monthly additional fee for erratta and/or enhancements, but ill have to put alot of work into changing these books to fit my needs as well.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Here are Amazon's Ranking for some D&D books:

#8 Magic Item Compendium
#13 Complete Scoundrel
#16 Races of the Wild
#17 Complete Arcane
#20 Complete Warrior
#22 Races of the Dragon
#27 Races of Destiny
#28 Complete Adventurer
#46 Races of Eberron

Scoundrel is much higher than I would think! Apparently nothing competes with elves and arcane magic except magic items.

 

[an_idol_mind]

Why are dragonborn more specific than elves? Because they don't look human? The culture of elves or any other non human core race is as alien as the one from dragonborns so there is no difference except looks. Also having elves gives the game a LotR feeling while lizard people or dragon people are not so restricting but also not completely unknown in the fantasy genre.

Elves are immediately recognizable to even casual fans of fantasy. They have existed in dozens of different books, movies, and video games. By comparison, dragonborn are not nearly as recognizable. If you describe the game to a new player, it's pretty likely that he can get a general idea of what an elf is just from the name. Dragonborn, though, will require more explanation.

 

[tsadkiel]

Dragonborn, though, will require more explanation.

"They're people who look like dragons."