And the mystery race is...hated

[Derren]

You may be right but its doubtful. Reptilian races tend to be on the strong side (at least physically).

half-Orcs were also strong. and were they munchkin material?

I agree with this point to an extent. BUT, Ebberon isnt Core and has its own "flavor". If they use Dragonborn/Tieflings as commonplace in a specific setting book, Im ok with it. Making them core is what I dont agree with. Core will make them overused, and we'll see them alot more in most upcoming 'Core" products.

And whats wrong with that? There is no "Core setting" so you can't say that dragonborn go against the core settings flavor. And I ask again, why must in you opinion every core race be out of Lord of the Rings and look like humans? And aren't elves and dwarves a lot more overused than tieflings and dragonborn?

 

[Sunderstone]

What does a desire to look cool have to do with munchkinism?

Next you'll be saying the game's munchkin if its got stats for leather armour.

Maybe we have different opinions on exactly what munchkinism is. Its not just appearance though, its also flavor and fit. Its like having Warforged in the realms. Imho, it doesnt fit or work well with FR's flavor. But, I can see the new crowd liking a the idea of playing a robot looking juggernaut because its "cooler" looking.

the races are cool, I just dont think its good for Core.

 

[Derren]

Maybe we have different opinions on exactly what munchkinism is. Its not just appearance though, its also flavor and fit. Its like having Warforged in the realms. Imho, it doesnt fit or work well with FR's flavor. But, I can see the new crowd liking a the idea of playing a robot looking juggernaut because its "cooler" looking.

the races are cool, I just dont think its good for Core.

As core has no flavor of its own the DM decides what flavor his campaign has. So saying that the flavor of dragonborn does not fit into core is nonsense as no flavor exists.
I can easily design worlds where elves do not fit so does that mean that they shouldn't be a core race?

 

[ThirdWizard]

So I'll ask again: did I just miss the bandwagon here and dragonfolk were part of some hugely popular request from people? Did Races of the Dragon sell a whole bunch of copies?

I believe I read that Races of the Dragon was one of the highest selling Races books. Very generally, anything with Dragon in the title will outsell anything without Dragon in the title. Or at least adding Dragon to the title increases sales in and of itself. I can't find the exact quote...

 

[Derren]

This is a really good point, and the first example I've seen of where the draconic races came up as something people were interested in (or, to be more precise, hated the second least).

So I'll ask again: did I just miss the bandwagon here and dragonfolk were part of some hugely popular request from people? Did Races of the Dragon sell a whole bunch of copies?

Wondering,

--Steve

When someone makes a poll with "Do you hate dragon people" then of course some people will vote for it. And there has not been a poll with "Do you like dragon people" to see how many people would have wanted to include dragonborn.

But as ThirdWizard said, dragon related books did sell rather well. So that is an indication that many people want dragons.

 

[Umbran]

As core has no flavor of its own...

That simply isn't true. The core rules may not have an explicit, well-detailed setting, but they still do have a flavor. The mechanics, the text telling us about races and classes, the details of spells and feats, all give the game a flavor.

And you can still say that one element fails to fit well with the other elements in the core. But I think anyone trying to claim that now, before seeing the core, is jumping the gun.

 

[Wormwood]

Maybe we have different opinions on exactly what munchkinism is. Its not just appearance though, its also flavor and fit.

So if the default setting of 4e D&D not only accomodates Tieflings and Dragonborn, but actually assumes they are integral parts of the campaign world---then problem solved, right?

 

[JoeGKushner]

I believe I read that Races of the Dragon was one of the highest selling Races books. Very generally, anything with Dragon in the title will outsell anything without Dragon in the title. Or at least adding Dragon to the title increases sales in and of itself. I can't find the exact quote...

Had something to do with a hole in the schdule. They noticed that anything with Dragons OR Magic sold more so we got Dragon Magic out of the deal.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Clearly, my dream of celestial half-fiend dire penguins as a core PC race is out......

 

[Odhanan]

Clearly, my dream of celestial half-fiend dire penguins as a core PC race is out......

So... how's that for "Sense of Wonder", Raven?